When to use the marble? MoM comes to mind but it requires beelining Calendar if we really want it, but we don't yet have enough Cal resources to really justify going Cal before alpha-currency. Have to think about it. When we get writing, it's a good time to bank gold for a while and get cheap libraries in, it gives some time to decide.
Or maybe aesth-lit at some point? I'm not too fond of SP or Parth, but the new SoZ is interesting. This path delays key economic stuff or warring.
(September 2nd, 2015, 05:57)von Adlercreutz Wrote: When to use the marble? MoM comes to mind but it requires beelining Calendar if we really want it, but we don't yet have enough Cal resources to really justify going Cal before alpha-currency.
MoM is probably the best marble wonder out there. If we go max expansion (which I think we should) I don't think we can afford going there before alpha/currency though. Maybe we could skip one of them (and/or bulb alpha right after math), but delaying both would surely cripple our economy for a long time to come.
Calendar seems a decent (although slightly dangerous) choice after currency, so I guess it'd be possible to go that route if MoM hasn't fallen, but it's far from a sure thing at that point.
Generally I'd like to add here that we have great looking land .
It's green, not overly jungled, has a good amount of rivers and decent hills and food specials.
What's slightly lacking is early commerce specials (generally offset by us being able to cottage) and, more importantly, happiness. This won't be a problem at the very start (where we're ok by virtue of ivory), but round the time of currency it'll likely be something we need to look into.
Calendar is good in that it'll give us one happy instantly. It'll grow to two when we build an expensive market (we'll want them eventually for happiness as well as commerce) and hopefully one more after IW and trades.
There are, of course, other routes for happy, but just putting this out there.
Quote:Or maybe aesth-lit at some point? I'm not too fond of SP or Parth, but the new SoZ is interesting. This path delays key economic stuff or warring.
My take on the wonders / aesthetics line:
SP I don't consider worth it.
Parthenon can be good for a non-phi civ, but ~270h (taking marble into account) is still a lot and not worth going for too early.
SoZ I like . Compared to other wonders it's not that expensive at 200h, but then it doesn't use marble... (or ivory for that matter)
TGL was my favourite wonder as a noob, but nowadays I'm not sure. It's definitely ok. And marble does help, but as to whether it's worth it?
Then, as far as the epics go:
NE is nice. I'd also say that clam-city is ok for this (if we don't find a better spot), but the opportunity cost is too high initially for this to be allowed to affect our early research path much.
HE might be an important wonder. With the new rules we don't need to wait for a veteran unit to start this either, but as a collosseum is required, construction seems much more of an urgency that literature.
I don't know. Perhaps settle marble, sell/gift it to industrious Donovan, let him build some nice wonders and then attack him as they're about to finish?
Do you remember when I queried about the high maintenance from our second city in the sim?
No? Anyway, according to the sandbox our second city would have maintenance over 4g/t
Well, to test this I started up a new sandbox. As I don't know how to do fancy stuff like adding columns to a map, copy-pasting parts from other maps or similiar, I simply settled for a torusland map of the dimensions 76x100 with similiar water ratios to ours and the same number of civs.
Anyhow, the result of the whole thing is that maintenance for our second city shouldn't be over 4g, but rather something closer to 1,06g/t
aand, just in case you wanted to sandbox a few moves after city2 is founded and have a reasonable idea of tech times I've attached a t29 save. Didn't know how to add the hut result, so it's not exactly spot on, but I believe it's only a matter of the sandbox save being 2 beakers ahead and 4 gold behind what our actual situation will be.
Ok, so that's one extra early happy, a bit of extra early commerce in our second city if we need it and only whales left to get the full set of market happy.
We will also get stone, so easier access to Moai and Oxford (and possibility of going for things like the mids)
Not to mention two additional food sources making for instance a city on the plains hill very viable.
In short I feel like we've got amazing land and I feel like we really need to rex the heck out of this...
One thing that got me thinking though is that I find it slightly strange that we've got such easy access to both stone and marble and wonder if most other people have the same. Then there's also the thing with marble being slightly contested between DZ and us and me wondering where our eastern neighbour might be...
Speaking of DZ. He just allocated all EPs on his other neighbour, so hopefully he sees that guy as a likelier threat / avenue of expansion...
(other world news: now Yuri has also popped a tech from a hut...)
DZ concentrating EP elsewhere seems like good sign to me also and gives us easier time getting his graphs. Unless it's because he met one of the winner candidates...
The high maintenance seemed a weird thing to me also, I thought that it would just be cheaper ingame. But I didn't pay too much attention to that since I think maintenance or not, our 2nd city spot is good. If anything it would have made our org-trait much stronger .
Nice to get some early happiness. I'm not sure how much we want to spam markets, they're expensive. Capital for sure and best commerce cities/GP farm when we can afford them.
I like stone. As I said earlier I don't consider failgold too bad. The Mids went around T100 in pb18 and I doubt they will go later here, so it's not like the hammers would lie down unused. Or then again we could actually get the wonder, so I consider it a win-win with one restriction: we need to get expansion well going before starting wonderbuidling. Maybe even a reason to go for math early instead of alpha.
Re gifting marble: I wonder what DZ would think about getting marble gifted...
I think the next scout move should be on the pig hill. You seem to wake up earlier than me so you get a lot of playing.
(September 3rd, 2015, 05:16)von Adlercreutz Wrote: DZ concentrating EP elsewhere seems like good sign to me also and gives us easier time getting his graphs. Unless it's because he met one of the winner candidates...
Hmm, I definitely prefer weak players on our continent, but at least we can hope that DZ being aggressive will slow the frontrunner down. And if all of DZs troops are down south it could also open up some opportunities for us
Quote:The high maintenance seemed a weird thing to me also, I thought that it would just be cheaper ingame. But I didn't pay too much attention to that since I think maintenance or not, our 2nd city spot is good. If anything it would have made our org-trait much stronger .
Yeah it's mainly an adaptation thing. Had maintenance been that high we probably would've had to put the brakes on expansion after 3-4 cities to get our economy in order, but now a land grab will definitely be worth it early on as well.
Quote:Nice to get some early happiness. I'm not sure how much we want to spam markets, they're expensive. Capital for sure and best commerce cities/GP farm when we can afford them.
Aye, they're expensive. And it's not like we want to do what I believe CH did once here and 7 pop whip one . With, say 2 post-math chops, some whip overflow and working some mines for a few turns while waiting on whip-anger to disappear it's possible to get them though. If we're really lucky we might even be in OR by the time they're needed as well. (how I wish I was expansive with this land...)
Quote:I like stone. As I said earlier I don't consider failgold too bad. The Mids went around T100 in pb18 and I doubt they will go later here, so it's not like the hammers would lie down unused. Or then again we could actually get the wonder, so I consider it a win-win with one restriction: we need to get expansion well going before starting wonderbuidling. Maybe even a reason to go for math early instead of alpha.
Well, though I'm not sure on a serious attempt at getting the mids (guessing that it'll be too much of a sacrifice to really have a good shot) I'm certainly up for some leisurely fail gold building if we can manage rexing and defensive needs otherwise. And if nobody dares to go for it with strong industrious players in the game, well I'd take the representation happy any day of the week!
Re: math vs alpha I need to see how things develop before making a proper judgement, but as long as we haven't met overseas neighbours I really believe math will benefit us more...
What's your general stance on bulbing alpha btw? It might mean a much later academy for the capital and/or getting a great person for a golden age trickier than if it was our first, but it should speed up currency and timing it decently is generally not that hard since you usually need to save some money round that period anyway.
Quote:Re gifting marble: I wonder what DZ would think about getting marble gifted...
It might not seem as odd as you think. If we settle on marble we settle on our side of a line drawn equidistant between our capitals, but we steal a lot of "his" tiles by doing so. He could see us gifting marble as admitting this fact, but still trying to remain on friendly terms.
Quote:I think the next scout move should be on the pig hill. You seem to wake up earlier than me so you get a lot of playing.
Yeah, it's a matter of pig hill or jungle for next move, but pigs should win due to better visibility of hill tile.
And yeah, while my main window of playing will be in the afternoons/evenings, these early turns I can play during lunch break or before work (starting at 7). I don't plan on doing this very often, but wanted to give ourselves a chance of getting ahead of DZ (didn't work) in case of disputed huts...
Why?
For some reason a person calling himself George Washington logged in for Serdoas civ yesterday, had a look around, but didn't finish turn. My guess is that that is NobleHelium. NH is up to almost the same post count as Serdoa in their thread and definitely a ded-lurker, but most likely a full on team member. Why would they need to be coy about this then? Well, Commodore and Noble has some serious antics going on between them that has existed for years. Should Com see that he's got Noble as a turn playing neighbour, he probably wouldn't feel safe until he's eliminated them. Noble not logging in by his "real" name thus could be a way to give their civs in game relationships a chance to function. Or it could be a disguise until Serum has rushed Com.
I'm not quite sure why he picked Washington as his name, but I guess Washington fighting the English and Commodore being a British rank in the Royal Navy might be reason enough...
A bit sad if this is actually the case, but on the other hand it'll make for a fun read once the lurker threads open up for us.
All right, it's Friday and it's time for the final part of the pre-game Opponent rankings
3. Krill as Monty (agg/spi) of China
Chances of winning:
Next door neighbour rating:
Entertainment value?:
Krill, Krill, Krill. With over 15.000 posts here at realms beyond he’s the watchman who never sleeps. He’s the creator of this mod, he’s the spammer of spam, the nightmare of anyone challenging his rule.
Technically, he’s definitely one of the best at the game. Obsessive about the smallest details, very few things are allowed to slip by his gaze. What brings him down though is his likelihood to rage. Bad tempered as few and adamant to admit any fault of his own he’s not an easy person to get along with, but at the same time you’re sure to get a good laugh at his fits and exclamations (once he’s killed you and you can read his spoiler thread). Playing crazy Monty of China I’m afraid that he’ll be even worse than normal. Actually though, it’s not certain that he’ll be the worst possible enemy from the very start. Krill has a way of playing, where he often rex like crazy in the beginning, running light on military and relying on a tight empire, a few strategically placed units and his reputation to keep him safe. I’m not sure what the best course of action to do here really is. Leave him be and he’ll be a terrible weed to get rid of when his numerous cities grow and ha’s are traversing the lands. Attack and suffer his wrath, and this surely is something you do not want to face, as in war he truly is fearsome. Somehow, I repeat, somehow we need to show him that we’ve got the better hand and that his fortunes must be found elsewhere. If that can be achieved, then actually even Krill can be scared into leaving with his tail between his legs.
Watch out for: doubly promoted horse archers, Cho-ko-nus off boats.
2. Plako as Pericles (cre/phi) of Germany
Chances of winning:
Next door neighbour rating:
Entertainment value?:
Plako is an old-timer here at RB. In the beginning he had a reputation of always getting rushed/dog piled, but still always ending up with the trophy when the dust has settled.
Those dog piles have left their mark though. Plako is never one to skimp on military, sometimes even to the detriment of his other development as he’s not keen on taking any bigger risks…
He’s also one to very strictly play by the book. He might have been left out in the finer points of diplomacy and trust building in the latest big games, but here, where diplomacy is quite heavily restricted, he should feel quite at home. He’s actually been in this game for so long that I otherwise might think he’s not interested enough to put the required effort in, but then again, he’s actually done a fair bit of coding in order to get this game going so his motivation seem to be running high.
Pericles of germany might not be the best of combos, but I believe he’ll make it work. Plako is all the time looking for opportunities, but lately (due to being a tad careful?) has only been able to capitalize quite late. The likewise late german bonuses might be helpful to transform that into real gains while some bulbing and cheap science buildings might keep him a pace and with the ability to snag a big wonder earlier on (clear mids warning!).
Plako is going to end up high, question is only whether it’ll be places 4-8 or really challenging for the title.
1. Dtay as Augustus (ind/imp) of Sumeria
Chances of winning:
Next door neighbour rating:
Entertainment value?:
Dtay always manages his start really well. He’s not the overly aggressive guy, getting frantic at the tiniest slight and can at times bide his time, confident that he’ll get into a good position eventually. But if he thinks he’s got the upper hand and is able to gain a real advantage, then he’s not afraid of early war either. Quote from pb13 where he was in a settling race with TBS/Jowy much closer to their capital:
Quote: The avoidance of ancient era warfare as the best long term has a lot in its favor. More growth start the snowball, its a line straight from the gospel of Sullla.
But sometimes, sometimes provocations are too much. Sometimes someone takes something that is rightfully yours, well really just yours, well actually just something you want.
His problem, if any, has been in converting an early lead into an actual win, but really it’s only a question of time and not having the worst possible neighbours dogpiling him…
With his current combo I’d actually be surprised if he didn’t manage to chop out an oracle, picking up a holy city on the way. Question is what he’ll take with it? Really hope Gav and the rest keeps him from repeating the currency grab he and Commodore did in pb25 at least.
If we start next to each other I’d say that we must make sure to hook up copper in a decent time frame (or only plant on hills with archer support) and try to find a good border that’s not too threatening to either party. Also, make sure to have a counter for his trademark early knight rush…
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Now, with my personal, quickly formed rankings presented. Where do you lurkers think I've really messed up?
Which combo is much stronger than I give it credit?
What player am I underestimating?
Who has good performances in the past, but has lost his edge as the game has developed?
Any and all comments are much welcome!
Thanks for the player rankings, these are always fun to read! I can't comment on who I think you rated too strong or too weak though, as IMHO trying to read your opponent is part of the game. And besides, we lurkers need something to gossip about while y'all are just moving your scouts around...
. 
. Compared to other wonders it's not that expensive at 200h, but then it doesn't use marble... (or ivory for that matter)
.
I wonder what DZ would think about getting marble gifted...
