[Spoilers PB27] REM tries to get a handle on this mod

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

3/23/16 9:40 pm taotao Score increased to 1191
3/23/16 9:12 pm Fenn Score decreased to 591
3/23/16 9:12 pm taotao Score increased to 1189
3/23/16 9:08 pm Fenn Score decreased to 596
3/23/16 9:08 pm taotao Score increased to 1186
3/23/16 8:59 pm Fenn Score decreased to 609
3/23/16 8:59 pm taotao Score increased to 1175
3/23/16 8:12 pm taotao Logged in

I'm safe. He won't finish this before I get rifles IMO, even with a rapid conquest. I really think he is making a mistake here, but I suppose it is about 10 cities for quite cheap.

Went in and had a gander at the state of affairs.

That's a lot of units. On military adviser, I have sight on 60 knights, 20 muskets... Nevermind the ones I cannot see. Unit production ramped up. Hopefully the army will be obsolete by the time he reaches me. He took random cities too. If I were Fenn it is obvious I am gonna die here so I would try to be annoying. Angola and possibly tiwanku can be retaken (tiwaku on the horse had 11 knights and a sword in) depending on what he has in the fog. And this really would slow him down and be irksome, as well as make the cities have less infra.

I would imagine that the whole conquest will take 10-15 turns, mainly because itll take a while for him to get to the eastern cities.

So I can see the channel between us is clear. I shall station a privateer there as it comes with visability to see any units coming from the islands. However when Inca falls he will be able to attack my soft north without much issue. I will have lookouts on the new islands but will probably need a few ships up here too.

City specialisation is key. I will choose a few cities to be ship producers and a few to be ground unit producers. Thus I use less hammers on barracks/drydocks which are also rather unhealthy inducing.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Well we have been waiting for a turn for a while and with the break I have been thinking a lot about this game...

I am considering throwing my second golden age now. I think the extra commerce and hammers now will be hugely helpful. I will get rifling 1 or 2 turns faster. I will be able to push enough units out to cover myself after taotao is done with Fenn/CH. Essentially it will cement my lead in tech and allow me to reach the next lot of first to bonuses at physics/communism first and get a headstart on cossacks.

Downside is awkward to revolt to SP as I will certainly not reach that in the GA, and slightly minor but I like having it after I have built levees... However most of my river tiles I can levee are already making hammers. But would I want to swap to SP right now? I don't think I could afford the commerce drop, and I don't think I have enough workshops/watermills to make it worthwhile...

It's really hard to judge, but definitely leaving emancipation I feel is the wrong choice. It is cheaper than caste, and I have more combined watermills/windmills than I do workshops. Also the commerce boost to growing cottages is great, as is the commerce boost to mines. Serfdom is interesting especially as it will allow 1t railroads, but the extra hammers will be slight and the lost commerce massive. So I will get a 10% hammer boost, minimal extra food from the watermills and the workshops. I have invested heavily in courthouses so the loss of dist to palace costs will be slight too... It would require a change to rep as that won't be needed without merc, so I would most likely go to police state. The increased hammers for units would be really nice, and WW would not be an issue with this. However then the environmentalism civic will be much weaker... Vassalage with the free units and free XP would be the way to go. I still don't think I have enough towns to make US or FS viable...

So I have a toss up between either running PS/vassalage/emancip/SP/FR or rep/environ/emancip/merc/FR . The balance tips more heavily for me to running the latter with the free GP from RIs and a better than evens chance of building the SoL.

I think I will get a guesstimate of dist to savings when next in and see where we go from there. And then calculate the amount of food and hammers gained. The 10% will be minimal benefit after powered factories. If I leave environ I would need some health buildings right now for a start nevermind before assembly line! Really awkward, different play styles. the PS/SP route would require a lot of aggression. The rep/merc route would more sit tight and tech.

Too many choices!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

2 turns since last post! Moving faster again

Taotao seemed to stall a tiny bit last turn. Only took one further city and I've lost sight on a large number of his knights which worries me. I need to quickly colonise the northern island to give me sight on the approaches to gems like Saradash. I can only see about 35 knights which leaves about 25 unaccounted for that I could see before - I don't think there has been enough combat to kill that many, and indeed the power amount is roughly the same. He could be boating them to finish Inca quicker perhaps? I just don't want to be thinking about possible naval invasions yet! 5 more turns and I will be able to bolster my perimeter. I am in a weird zone here where I definitely need more troops, yet am reticent to build any knowing that everything will be very obsolete in only a few turns. I want to have as many builds ready to upgrade to rifles as possible straight away so they can start making me look intimidating

So here is my first colony. Russia never was a colonial empire, but lets see if we can change that in this world. My civics and traits make founding new cities rather profitable. As well as the potential, there are instant 2 x 5 commerce routes, the commerce on the worked tiles and two 7 beaker/gold producers for free. It only costs me about 11 gold in mait (raising all other city costs) and a couple more in civic options. Maybe it was wise to delay astro settles

Also nice to see that barb warriors are still lurking! Glad I spotted this actually, I will probably land my parties with more power now just in case.

There are quite a few interesting isles including one with premined gold and seemingly no food and a lot above old babylon which I should be able to claim all of with dtay otherwise engaged.

Heres a mechanics question - what determines city vis cost? I have no idea why I can see most except that core of cities? Most bizarre. I can see how much it costs in the window but working out why it is like that intregues me - the difference in time cities have been standing is neligeble, and it cannot be difference in distance? Is it something to do with them being old zulu cities?

Also note that you can still sometimes gift cities! These cannot be rejected either...

I can't work out taotaos plan here, looking at the gold he has. I think this is his max eco output at the moment given the long tech vis teching time I can see. But why does he want so much gold? He cannot upgrade anything worthwhile except maybe a few gallys, and definitely has saved more than enough here. Perhaps he is waiting for his third golden age after killing Inca, and to go back into teching mode with more KTBs and a big cashpile? He is still making quite a few knights.

I met gavagi last turn (unsure how, perhaps from my scouting knight on that landmass) but he didn't open borders... Shame but I get why. He is much the same level of tech as dtay, having gunpowder and saving on chemistry whilst missing techs like banking and Education etc, roughly around the same level.

DZ proposed fish/fish this turn which I sent back. I think he realises that with those 2 Inca cities he has he will have very awkward borders with taotao. Also he won't be easy to take on being very close to redcoats either. I think he will like friendship, and he is also escorting his GM through me. As he doesn't have astro the best city for him is probably Moscow unless he is going for the ToA city (I am unsure where this is) THis will allow him to go on an upgrade spree perhaps.

Next GP is supposedly coming from captive, my planned NE city. Indeed I wish there were a way to order by time to next GP... I will try and avoid this if possible and get more value out of the GPP by letting another city pop one first. Perhaps run a mine or 2 in there or something. I probably should hold all my GP until I know what is what for my next GA but a bulb would be nice.

Demos... Looking better and better each turn frankly. I had 3 RIs come online last turn and another 3 due this turn. Been changing tiles to bring them forward a turn or 2 if possible. Those free scientists in this civic set up are ridiculous! I would imagine that rival best stat for GNP is DZ too given he is at full tech. Keeping the decent MFG/CY leads and now a soaring population lead with a lot of tall cities, Moscow will be size 20 in 3 turns. Khavrobhask is almost ready for HE, although I am now thinking perhaps I should switch the IW and the HE cities around... HE could be better placed nearer taotao and IW safer to help build the later wonders like the pentagon. I might pop back in and change that to a barracks whilst I think about that.

Finally tech direction. I will finish RP with about 600 OF beakers this turn. The game tells me rifles will only take 3 turns without the 20% discount - with the extra RIs and the RP commerce for watermills (and hammers for windmills) could I possibly 2 turn it?! Unlikely but we can dream. I had a think of the next destination and I think I will revise my push for cossacks - getting corporation is probably better. It is 6500 beakers with a 40% discount as I have economics and liberalism in this mod. Supposedly I can 2 turn it. This will be a huge commerce boost, minimum of 40x3 with the extra routes, but likely to be more like 150-160 extra commerce to add all my juicy multipliers too. This will pay for itself in no time, and perhaps delay cossacks by a turn or 2 in which I can build a few more rifles for defence anyway.

Here is the question - can I get a defence together against taotao fast enough with my tech lead? More and more it is looking like yes, and hopefully I can then use my security to stomp a few civs (here's looking at you Borsche and your currently 30 knight stack that I could decimate)

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Any requests from lurkers for SSs/thoughts? I will post a few more city shots if I have a moment soon. This mod gives cracking tile values this late in the game - I'm running water mills +1 hammer +1 commerce over usual, mines +1 h/1c, farms/pasture +1c, windmills +1h and cottages sub town +1c (interestingly this has made my play of whipping to the bone early and not growing my cottages better, as even though they are 40 turns till towns both villages and towns are the same output in these civics)

[Elkad]

Heres a mechanics question - what determines city vis cost? I have no idea why I can see most except that core of cities? Most bizarre. I can see how much it costs in the window but working out why it is like that intregues me - the difference in time cities have been standing is neligeble, and it cannot be difference in distance? Is it something to do with them being old zulu cities?

Founding date has nothing to do with Espionage costs.

Trade routes from his cities to you, open borders (Edit: only because not having them would prevent trade routes completely), distance to your capital, presence of your culture in his cities, having your state religion in his cities (when the same religion is NOT his state religion), and your ownership of the holy city for religions present in his cities.
Plus EP differences of course, both current vs each other, and total EP produced in the game, but that is static for every city in an empire.

Looks to be a combination of religion (the lack thereof in his core, so you can't own any holy cities related to them - do you own any holy cities anyway? I've lost track.), and probably trade routes (his most established core cities probably have all their routes used in intercontinental trade)

Visibility uses the same cost formulas as all the other missions.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy...e_cost.php
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=252496
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...ostcount=3

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Heres a mechanics question - what determines city vis cost? I have no idea why I can see most except that core of cities? Most bizarre. I can see how much it costs in the window but working out why it is like that intregues me - the difference in time cities have been standing is neligeble, and it cannot be difference in distance? Is it something to do with them being old zulu cities?

Founding date has nothing to do with Espionage costs.

Trade routes from his cities to you, open borders (Edit: only because not having them would prevent trade routes completely), distance to your capital, presence of your culture in his cities, having your state religion in his cities (when the same religion is NOT his state religion), and your ownership of the holy city for religions present in his cities.
Plus EP differences of course, both current vs each other, and total EP produced in the game, but that is static for every city in an empire.

Looks to be a combination of religion (the lack thereof in his core, so you can't own any holy cities related to them - do you own any holy cities anyway? I've lost track.), and probably trade routes (his most established core cities probably have all their routes used in intercontinental trade)

Visibility uses the same cost formulas as all the other missions.
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy...e_cost.php
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=252496
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.p...ostcount=3

I have confu holy city. Interesting - but his cap etc which admittedly is closer I AM still getting vis on... Perhaps it is a mix of those cap etc being closer, and then those further away are probably using My larger cities for routes or have confu in them. Thanks, just seemed really buzzard to have a hole in my vision.

Now I have demos on dtay/gav, and plako seems to be rolling back his siege plus DZ has fish/fish traded I will cont to put all my EPs into him... I'm making 80ish a turn, I've got near 2k in him now

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I have been trying to work out why my economy is so much better than taotaos. We are now both at full tech and he has 1700 gnp and I 2900. He has 1 KTB with this, both 1 perestquite.

I think it is literally the civics. We are roughly the same amount of cities. Mine perhaps have more land tiles and are less 'new' being conquest cities rather than settles but this shouldn't account for this difference. We have the same TR potential partners really, and I am not building any wealth/research. If anything he has more tech buildings as he has a lot of observatories, whereas I haven't managed to get any of those and only have 8 RIs atm. Our culture esp output is roughly similar seeing the graphs.

So it is probably just the extra commerce per mine and non town cottage improvement, and extra 3sci/spec and 1 gold a spec. He will be running his (rather larger) army more cheaply because of vassalage but I am just surprised that it seems to make this difference. In land we roughly have the same tile mix - him perhaps more workshops but otherwise fairly similar...

Still he is 3 turning chemistry so let us see where we are after that. He has a lot of gold to burn. Going straight to grens will be annoying for me but enough Cossacks will counter that threat.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

This tech rate...

Rifling done in just 2 turns?! This is insane. I don't think I have ever teched this fast at this stage of the game at all, and certainly not this fast relative to other players. Taotao is 3 turning chemistry - they are 7500 beakers vs 4500 beakers... And he haemorraghes more GPT at full tech I bet!

He really needed to deal with me earlier. Queued some muskets to autoupgrade, and I'll get a couple of rifles per coastal city. Definitely have the time/tech rate to spare to get corporation next for the extra routes, then I will work towards cossacks and then the SoL. Estimating that it'll be 2 turns for corporation, then about 5-6 until MT as I have to go through lit/drama/music/nationalism first.

Also, I have already found 2 of these -

I'm gonna call them BRICK islands

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

I'm gonna call them BRICK islands

You pass your RB history test.

[Old Harry]

Not so fast with the grades, that one is actually a nod to PB18...