RBP3 [SPOILERS] National Pastime (Rapoleon_Hi of the Aztecs)

[Ruff_Hi]

email from Athlete (Inca)

Cricket?

Cricket? Nobody understands cricket! You gotta know what a crumpet is to understand cricket!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_6KMGB_Pkw

Athlete for team JANK

Ahh - very good. But did you notice that the cricket bat carried the day?

Ruff

Edit: I forgot to say that this basically confirms that Inca are planning on attacking me. If they weren't they would have protested my 'bat or bowl'.

[Ruff_Hi]

Guys,

I've been walking my dogs and thinking about my future. HRE are suggesting that we might be able to talk Inca off with a carrot (include in tech cartel) and stick (4v1 with shadow puppets at dawn). That might work, but I don't expect it to. Frankly, I don't want to reward such early aggression.

If they do attack, I don't see them capturing my capital with the first wave. If they walk straight past my capital, I expect they will be able to kill my second city just before the Tech Trade turn. Or they just choke my capital. Either way, I am out of the running re winning this game and my goals become KILL INCA and feed you guys money and military to KILL INCA. My civ can be set up to generate money (Shrine Income) and units (whip plus quick recovering time) so that might be my future.

DJCiv mentioned a goal of the initial encounter would be to not tip our hand re Chariots to the Inca - make them feel that they can safely bring wave after wave of axes. Then after Tech Trade day, we roll into my territory with Chariots and kill their units. As such and given that I can probably hold against the Q with 2 warriors in my 2nd city (until they walk an axe over), I don't think the Ottomans should declare on Inca ... just say hello, nice to meet you and send the chariot on a 5 to 8 turn tour - returning to Aztec lands in time for Tech Trade day.

Ruff

[TheMeInTeam]

Play to win Ruff. If that means giving them something you don't want to give on principle, do it. If that means gambling on attacking a choker or aggressive unit because you don't feel you can come back from lost turns, do that. If you can discourage them by having a sentry net notice the incomming attack before it comes, try that.

But it's not a blown game unless you either 1) lose or 2) choose slow death. It's hard to imagine the latter is preferable, especially because wins when you gamble with 1) as the result are so epic.

I will remind you of the mass razing of tony's and some of LP's cities. MLS wanted to wait on that attack. However, your team had wonders, GPP advantage, and multiple players more experienced with pvp than any of us. If we waited for more berserkers and you guys got astro, we could have easily lost. However, attacking when we did was a big risk also. I was GAMBLING that you guys would not reinforce sufficiently after seeing my caravel loop to scout (the fact that neither of us had alpha meant I deliberately avoided tipping the fact that we had astro by using galleons). It turns out we won via 9 cities razed, but what if you guys *had* garrisoned each city with 2 maces or longbows? We'd have struggled to raze more than 1-3 cities rather than all 9 hit, and that would have put us in a bad spot.

When you're playing in bad situations like this (such as a disadvantage), where it's either "risk losing" or "lose slowly but surely", the risk is practically the only option. The only question is the kind of risk (forging a tech alliance with a loose cannon, or organizing an overt dogpiling and owing a favor).

[Ruff_Hi]

Who said I was dead? I don't think that they will be talked out of it at the moment. They are taking a gamble that I will be poorly defended. They are wrong - my capital will not be poorly defended. I am planning on waiting until they see that to try and buy them off. I don't think that they want to play a long slow choke with other teams taking the game from them.

[Ruff_Hi]

chat with Darrell of DJ Civ - pretty general stuff just keeping each other informed of plans.

• DJ-Darrell:: ruff
  krill has a map of exploit's lands but he says it has your IP in it
  Is it okay for him to share it with us
  
• Ruff: my IP?
  
• DJ-Darrell:: intellectual property
  you must have sent him a screenshot
  
• Ruff: well - he sent me screenshots and asked me not to shrae
  
• DJ-Darrell:: right
  
• Ruff: I sent him some - prob didn't say not to share ... thought it was a given
  
• DJ-Darrell:: yeah
  
• Ruff: guess you really need to be explicit with Krill
  
• DJ-Darrell:: I asked him for it, he said you need to release it before he will share it with us
  
• Ruff: hey - check your mail
  
• DJ-Darrell:: so I am asking for that...for permission to Krill to share it with us
  okay
  
• Ruff: I sent them to you along with some demo for rego
  I can see Inca
  
• DJ-Darrell:: we've been talking a lot with the turks re: your situation
  
• Ruff: and exploit next turn too
  
• DJ-Darrell:: so you have incan soldier points?
  thats really key
  and exploit soldier poitns will be key as well
  let me catch you up...if you have a sec
  
• Ruff: sure
  Inca demo sent to your team yesterday - email with 2 zip files
  
• DJ-Darrell:: okay, so all this is just between us. probably a majority of it can be shared, but I have no idea what can and cant at this point. sorry about that but just too much going on right now for me to keep track of it.
  first off, rome
  We spoke to them about a possible joint choke of exploit. he is teching alphabet, and we need to stop that so our cartel keeps the upper leg
  They had made some comments earlier that lead us to believe they wanted to kill exploit.
  However, they declinced to accept our invitation to join, and they are still on the fence re: the alliance overall
  
• Ruff: I was hoping to direct Rome at Inca
  ?? I thought Rome was providing IW to the Cartel\
  
• DJ-Darrell:: Futile. Their reason is that they want to wait for AGG Praets.
  That was the plan, but they are still not in the cartel.
  
• Ruff: ahh - rats
  
• DJ-Darrell:: Yes
  
• Ruff: do they have IW?
  
• DJ-Darrell:: They are drafting some kind of letter on "terms of joining" the alliance
  
• Ruff: they can't if they are teching letters
  my vote is to include them - but I am pretty far away and they don't pose an initial threat to me
  
• DJ-Darrell:: They need two techs for Praets, but I am sure they picked up worker techs as well
  Well, England/Carthage will be more likely to join the team that has AGG Praets IMO.
  
• Ruff: sure
  so a very valuable civ to get on board
  
• DJ-Darrell:: okay, so point #2 is that Portugal lacks Horse
  That means we are the only civ that can choke/stop Exploit from getting Alphabet
  
• Ruff: T72 is miles away
  
• DJ-Darrell:: That means w ewill be going all Farms and Mines and no tech, so we'll be really dependent on the alliance for our research
  yeah...he wont get to it I think
  sunrise is working out some kind of plan
  
• Ruff: do you / will you have horses?
  
• DJ-Darrell:: I hope
  We have Horse very soon, we just need The Wheel to connect it.
  And to build Chariots of course.
  
• Ruff: right
  
• DJ-Darrell:: We will also have Copper fairly soon
  And a fourth city
  
• Ruff: oh shut up
  
• DJ-Darrell:: All of our cities can produce
  We were going to configure two for tech, but that is out the door now.
  Krill is urging us to focus all effort on Exploit, and to leave you and the Ottomans to deal with the Incans.
  Needless to say, we are not going to leave you out to dry.
  
• Ruff: each RealmsBeyond pitboss game gets more bloody than the last one
  
• DJ-Darrell:: This one is going to be brutal, and sson
  
• Ruff: next game, I am selecting Agg, Spiritual, Wheel, Mining and rushing to BW
  
• DJ-Darrell:: give me one sec
  
• Ruff: take your time
  
• DJ-Darrell:: Okay bakc...next game will be on Civ 5
  
• Ruff: I am not buying Civ5
  lost way too much of my life to Civ4
  
• DJ-Darrell:: Right, so back to our situation, keep us up to date turn by turn on what the Incans have and our bringing obviously.
  hah-hah...I will take that bet
  
• Ruff: will do
  plan on doing a blow by blow for the lurkers
  this game really suffers from lack of lurkers ... too many actually playing
  
• DJ-Darrell:: what we really need to know is how many chariots do you need by when to beat back the attack
  
• Ruff: also writing an email to Inca (in my head) offering them their last chance to pull back
  
• DJ-Darrell:: I know you cant answer now, but we'll need that info as soon as possible
  
• Ruff: well - get rego working on telling me how many axe Inca have
  and I will tell you how many chariots I need
  
• DJ-Darrell:: Yeah...he needs to C&D Exploit and Incans big time now
  
• Ruff: lazy so and so
  
• DJ-Darrell:: In reality, I doubt we will know the answer until the stack shows up
  I assume they have a hill they can park on, but no forests?
  
• Ruff: so - this afternoon then
  not to sure where they will come in from (S or N)
  there will be no forest next to my capital
  but there are hills
  
• DJ-Darrell:: yeah
  so they get 50% defense
  
• Ruff: +25%
  
• DJ-Darrell:: fortification should be assumed for a choke
  
• Ruff: if they fortify, they lose
  I expect them to skip my capital and head for me 2nd city
  
• DJ-Darrell:: yeah...then come back
  but that will take time, you are right
  8 turns for us to get the techs, another two turns to connect if we do our workers properly, another two turns to get the units out, and then the long walk north
  
• Ruff: if they attack this turn, bypass capital, it will bt T60 before they can get back on a hill next to capital
  
• DJ-Darrell:: How many tiles between our capitals?
  
• Ruff: I also expect them to try and remove my food (level ground)
  12
  I am at 5N, 12E
  
• DJ-Darrell:: t62+2+2+6=t72
  
• Ruff: your army of fastworkers could also road towards me to speed those chariots over
  
• DJ-Darrell:: they are going to be tied up unfortunately
  
• Ruff: seems I will have to last quite a few turns
  
• DJ-Darrell:: now
  let me see
  
• Ruff: this is going to be fun
  
• DJ-Darrell:: you have how many workers?
  
• Ruff: 2
  and they will be out of chopping options soonish
  
• DJ-Darrell:: hmm, well instead of turtling them in your capital, you can send them down to use
  
• Ruff: too dangerous for them
  
• DJ-Darrell:: and we can use them to road up
  
• Ruff: right
  hey - you could declare on me, capture them turning them into fast workers and then gift them back later
  I would be ok with that
  
• DJ-Darrell:: thats pretty smart
  you know the copper north of our capital?
  
• Ruff: just
  
• DJ-Darrell:: we will be putting a fourth city to grab that and the pig...only one spot grabs both
  get them tot he copper we will take them and then road back to you
  
• Ruff: yes - I will split off a warrior and us him to provide cover for them
  and send them N of the 3 tile lake towards that copper
  
• DJ-Darrell:: a warning...exploit has a woody 2 warrior heading that way
  
• Ruff: exploit and I are ok at the moment
  
• DJ-Darrell:: good
  
• Ruff: I've been talking to him about selling him a missionary
  we are haggling re hammer value
  
• DJ-Darrell:: his prices are stoopid
  5 gold for 20 beakers? I'll take that.
  
• Ruff: not if he gets enough buyers
  if he sells a tech 3 or 4 times - he comes out in front
  
• DJ-Darrell:: No tech brokering?
  still pretty tough to pull off IMO
  do you know what techs he's researched and whether he has copper or horse?
  
• Ruff: if he lands a monopoly tech, he could sell it 8 times or more
  no idea
  my guess is that he is on alpha
  I should have his demo next turn
  will send you guys a copy
  
• DJ-Darrell:: 100% correct
  he just got writing, and now is onto alphabet
  his eta is 72 turns
  
• Ruff: yeah - I saw his email
  
• DJ-Darrell:: our guess is his military is non-existent, we can choke him with a few units, then mop him up at our liesure
  
• Ruff: ok - have to work now
  I will keep you guys posted re Inca and those workers
  
• DJ-Darrell:: ok, ttyl
  

[Ruff_Hi]

chat with Rego (DJCiv) after I supplied them my demo charts. Rego got back to me with an estimate of Inca strength.

• DJ-Rego: there?
  
• Ruff: no
  
• DJ-Rego: shoot
  
• Ruff: one day that joke will ware thin
  
• DJ-Rego: then you probably wont' care that incans are definitely #1 in power @ 48K
  
• Ruff: but not today
  how much of that is tech and how much of that is axes?
  if they bring 6 axes - I am toast
  3 I can probably deal with
  
• DJ-Rego: no i don't think it's 6 axes
  i'm still working on that
  
• Ruff: ok, 4 I can prob deal with
  3 I can def deal with
  
• DJ-Rego: gimme a few more mins and i'll let you know
  
• Ruff: thx
  and if you can tell me if their capital is empty ... even better
  
• DJ-Rego: well i should be able to give you a decent guess at their total military
  so then just subtract out the units that are choking you
  
• Ruff: sure
  
• DJ-Rego: do you have city visibility on their city tiles?
  
• Ruff: no
  
• DJ-Rego: like where you can see their pop
  
• Ruff: but I will do in 1 or 2 turns
  
• DJ-Rego: trying to figure out if either city has a barracks
  
• Ruff: do rax give soldier pts?
  
• DJ-Rego: yes
  3K
  
• Ruff: I did not know that
  
• DJ-Rego: http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy...aphics.php
  
• Ruff: I should have vision of their capital in 1 or 2 turns
  no chance of seeing their 2nd city
  
• DJ-Rego: what military did you produce over the past few turns?
  
• Ruff: 1 archer at capital last turn
  so now have 5 warriors and 1 archer
  both cities are size 1
  no rax
  
• DJ-Rego: ok
  
• Ruff: tech - mining, BW, Archery, ag, myst, poly
  
• DJ-Rego: you mean med not poly right
  
• Ruff: yeah - what ever that is
  
• DJ-Rego: ok i think they have in total 4 quechuas and 3 axes
  
• Ruff: so ... hotdog is 1
  leaves 2 Qs at home and an incomeing of 3axe and 1Q
  this is at the end of T53 or is it now?
  
• DJ-Rego: they have 3K pop, 16K tech, and those units are 26K
  missing 3K somewhere
  this is at the beginning of t54
  i.e. beginning of last turn
  
• Ruff: ok - so the 3k could be a rax
  prob in capital
  Qs are worth 1 or 2?
  
• DJ-Rego: possibly 2
  just about everything is 1K * total strength
  additional 1K for anything with a melee bonus
  (i.e axes)
  
• Ruff: ahh - thx
  so my power from units is 1 x 3 + 5 x 2 ... or 13k
  gee that sucks
  
• DJ-Rego: heh ours is worse
  i think we have 5 warriors
  
• Ruff: want to borrow an archer lol
  
• DJ-Rego: actually i think they have 1 more quechua
  yeah i think so
  
• Ruff: 5Qs plus 3Axes ... well, I expect that I will see some of these when I get home
  
• DJ-Rego: barracks, 2 3xp axes 1 0xp axe
  and 5 quechuas, all just C1 plus barb xp
  
• Ruff: promo don't give soldier pts do they?
  well - if they have all of their axes approaching my land then DIM and I stand a chance of taking down their capital - that would be epic!!
  
• DJ-Rego: no for promos
  that would indeed be awesome
  so i have you with 8K in soldier points over the last 2 turns
  archery is 3k
  arche ris 3k
  ah nm archery is 6K
  that works
  you're at 30K now
  
• Ruff: expect me to add 1 archer on T55, T56 and (maybe) T57
  
• DJ-Rego: okay
  

[Ruff_Hi]

yes ... it is war. Here is an email exchange and a chat in game with Athlete ...

(read from bottom up)

Guys,

I see that you've declared on me and invaded The Village Green. As I've said, I have prepared a number of surprises for you. You can already see 1 and, at last count, I have at least 5 more (don't worry - more are currently in planning). Don't think that I am bluffing ... because I don't bluff. I'm not very good at so I just stick to the truth. If I say something, I mean it. Sure, I may not tell you the whole truth, or reveal all of my secrets ... but if I share something ... trust me, it is accurate. Go back and look at all of my diplo from pbem#1, #2, the Apolyton demo game ... you will not find any out right lie in any of them.

So, last chance ... call off the attack, turn around now and head home and we'll just write it off as a little disagreement ('-1 You didn't like my Color' and '+1 You accepted our differences'). Peak over the hill to see if I am really telling you the truth (I am, but you will have to exhibit some degree of trust) and it is a grudge match ('-20 You called me a chucker' - for those that don't follow cricket, a chucker is the very worst insult ... effectively you said that the bowler doesn't bowl the ball, he throws it) where I will see you dead, your land salted and the name Inca go down in history as unworthy to be trusted, and unfaithful to accept someone at their word.

Your decision.

Ruff

and some discussion of war logistics ...

JANK,

I'm assuming you are claiming the second half leaving me with the first half? I'm fine with that. If you claim the first half then we will have a problem. BTW - athlete - you missed my very last comment to you 'no, no hard feelings ... this will be fun'.

Ruff

Hey Ruff,

Ya sorry, we take the 2nd half of the turn. That's what we did the turn before and have done this turn so this is the formal acknowledgement of that. As for your first e-mail we'll have to have a peek over the hill so to speak and see atleast 1 of the other surprises before we call anything off.

Enjoy the glint off of our shiny axes!

Athlete for Team JANK

JANK,

Peek all you want ... just be aware that there will be no calling anything off at that point.

Ruff

Ruff,

Isn't this an invitation to peek? The rest alludes to peace may still be available once we see what we're in for...
"Peak over the hill to see if I am really telling you the truth"

Athlete for Team JANK

hey - don't selectively quote ... take out the bracket comment and it reads ...

Peak over the hill to see if I am really telling you the truth and it is a grudge match

ie - live with the consequences.

Ruff

[Ruff_Hi]

and here is the current situation as predicted by rego (ok, he is short 1 axe ... it might still be in the fog) and myself (note my T55? markers!)



So, 1 lone Q at my second city (currently guarded by 2 warriors, growing next turn). I will have 5 hammers into the archer so I can whip it if I want to. I also have 1 hammer into a warrior so I can whip that and build 2 warriors in 2 turns.

There are 2 axes plus 1 Q coming at my capital. 99.94 will have 48 hammers into a 25h archer. Next turn you can add another 20 to that (chop from worker in box) while my other worker moves as indicated to chop. Then I can whip again once I actually have some hammers invested in an archer.

end of T55 - 44 hammers in archer (+1 archer for a total of 2)
end of T56 - 41 hammers in archer (+1 giving 3) (chop)
end of T57 - 18 hammers in archer
end of T58 - 49 hammers in archer (+1 giving 4) (whip)
end of T59 - 45 hammers in archer (+1 giving 5) (chop)
end of T60 - 41 hammers in archer (+1 giving 6) (chop)
end of T61 - 17 hammers in archer

Not to bad doing a Spullla unit assemble line .

Meanwhile - at the Inca capital ...



HRE and I invade next turn. The turn after, I stick my head out and tell HRE to come on over if it is ok or BUG OUT if it isn't. Hopefully, we will find 1 Q in residence and I can do enough damage to it for HRE to kill their capital.

[Ruff_Hi]

Updates ...

• The western Q moved onto the forest
  
• The eastern 2xAxe, 1xQ moved NE onto the plains hill - I chatted to athlete (team player for Inca) and asked him what the battle odds were (23% axe v archer). That will actually go down to 21% as I get another 5% fortification bonus next turn.
  
• Another axe appeared where the workers are
  
• workers ran away
  
• my warrior over to the east revealed a city behind a river with 1 Q (
  
• my exploring warrior in the south is fog busting rivers so that we have trade connections when we get sailing (T63)
  
• chance of dying this turn - less than zero
  

[spacemanmf]

Ruff: this game really suffers from lack of lurkers ... too many actually playing

Probably true, but there are some people only following... but it's a bit tricky to say anything meaningful if they are following other threads too. It's a minefield. Plus there are so many teams with so many different names, it's confusing as much as anything else.

Anyway, I am enjoying the cricket references.

Here's hoping you can fend off the Incans!