[SPOILERS] scooter's sunny sunday stroll

[scooter]

Ok, I feel weird about saying this, but with Luddite needing a replacement - it's too bad for him because he nearly has this thing won since AT is lagging behind (partially my fault) and Sian is wasting resources attacking me at no gain to himself, while Luddite has landed Stonehenge, Oracle, and Pyramids, while being right behind me in food/mfg. All this on a map that makes it difficult to expand and difficult to invade. Honestly, he's got it pretty much won. I'm not sure I can fairly express that outside this thread though... So yeah, weird situation.

[Commodore]

Clearly, the question is how good the HC AI is.

[scooter]

Clearly, the question is how good the HC AI is.

That would certainly make for a much more interesting game. Really, that's the only way someone other than luddite wins. Actually, it could also happen if someone very inexperienced replaced him. That would be a fun experiment actually - "here, greenish player, you are set to win. Don't blow it."

I'm not too motivated to make that happen though considering my odds of winning is 0 regardless .

[scooter]

Welp, where did I leave off. FYI, don't be expecting regular updates here. Basically, when I'm dead last and have no prayer of being even slightly competitive, my interest level evaporates. Is that a little lame? Maybe. This is sort of a new situation for me. I'm used to playing a conservative, solid, but unspectacular opening which always puts me right around 2nd place. Decided to rush for the first time ever and I think you all see why I usually don't do such things . I seem to have Lewwyn'd this game a little bit by being bent on war . Anyways, I'll do my best to at least cause a little bit of havoc before this game is up. I did snag Hanging Gardens which would have been much more impressive if I was at 7 cities as planned instead of 5 and under crippling whip anger. But whatever, here was the T58 situation:



This underscores why Sian's decision is just wacky. He can't possibly hope to hold this city . Sure enough, next turn rolls around:



Don't mind if I do. However, one moment of high stupidity:



This city was outside of my control for exactly one turn, but because it was a size 1, it gave him 50% culture and therefore I got 3 turns of revolt instead of instantly re-popping borders?? Huh? Lame. Anyways, end turn, my oasis borders pop, and:



AWESOME. It's obvious to me that Luddite has this thing won enough that it would be reasonable to concede, and yet AT has what looks like an invasion force prepping. Seriously? You guys know Luddite is, like, next to you all right?

FYI - I'd completely understand their attacks on me if 1) I was in the lead or 2) they could keep my land. Both of those would make perfect sense to me. However, going after the last place guy when you can't hope to keep his land is sort of silly. Well actually, it may be keep-able if they both come at me at the same time, but that would just be blind luck.

Anyways, it's too bad my "master plan" will never come to fruition. My plan was to race to Music and push to settle all the land across the desert, using the artist to bomb me a bunch of it. I figure I have no prayer of keeping up with Luddite's FIN + river everywhere + Pyramids + 2 oasis** so I figured if I got a ton of land, Hanging Gardens, and then got myself an army with all my population I could at least make this game interesting. However, Sian and AT are apparently in a rush to concede to Luddite .

**The oasis thing I actually didn't know, but Luddite told me via chat after he resigned. Probably was too spoilery, but we were chatting pretty freely because I told him I was 95% sure nobody was catching him, and he pretty much agreed and said he had read my thread already. Then he eventually admitted he had gotten both oasis, which is further reason why nobody can compete (AT has no Oasis, Sian has angry bird'd me, and I am, well, just look at the screenshots).

EDIT: FYI for after the game, no hard feelings at all for Sian/AT . I'm being a tad snarky here, but honestly, my mistakes were far greater than theirs. I earned my 4th place finish .

[scooter]

Oh yeah, one super-fun picture:



I may suck but AT LEAST MY PEOPLE LIVE LONGER.

[scooter]

I try hard not to complain much about maps, because I recognize the time it takes to make a map for no reason other than to be nice. We have some awesome map-makers here, and I appreciate all the work you all put in. I have some criticisms of this map, but just know ahead of time that I think there's probably more blame on the players for not being more specific than there is on Mist himself. But I want to make a list of comments on the map. The comments are mostly negative, but some positive. FYI - I've seen about 90% of the map. I say that because I've seen my whole quadrant inthe south and middle, and I see most of the north - but not quite all yet (see the minimap). So do understand that I'm not omniscient here and I'm writing from my own biased perspective, and some of these may change when I see the whole picture. Anyways:

The bad

1) This map feels like one of those things that are way more fun for the lurkers than the players. Yeah it's cool to see giant deserts and giant peak ranges and a super artificial start, but it's not all that fun to play. Same reason I never played the Fantasy Realm map script. It shoots out funky looking maps, but it's not a fun game of Civ - for me anyways. Actually, a big reason I haven't lurked too many FFH maps is I find myself looking at those maps early on and going "wow that doesn't look fun even slightly." "Evil" maps are fun to lurk, not so much to play. Giant swaths of desert makes for a weird situation where the only land rush is that incredibly artifical plains oasis and lakes fish mess. It's kinda cool and funny, but it's also really weird to play because it's basically a 6 city challenge.

2) We did request nothing too gimmicky, and this... is the most gimmicky map I've ever played on. Now, in fairness, we really should have been more specific. So again, I don't mean to slight Mist here - I blame us as the players more than him. However, when I think of a "non-gimmicky" map, I don't expect >50% of it to be deserts and peaks. My comments in the recent greens game map thread was pretty much borne out of this map. I chose an Expansive trait, but that was significantly nerfed because I didn't realize I only had 5 cites to settle, one of which didn't need any workers at all! When I'm thinking "non-gimmicky" I normally am thinking something close to "if the map generator didn't suck, it would be plausible that it could have generated this." However, I've never communicated that, so obviously people have different ideas on what this means. I'll be more specific in the future .

3) I believe if this map was played 10 times, it would be decided before T100 8 times out of 10. I don't think that's ever a good thing honestly.

4) This is more about map-making in general, but I'm thinking for future maps, either removing stone/marble or making it a sacrifice to lock down would be a good approach to map design. Also, it seems like it may be a prudent thing for players to know ahead of time. The two of them just have such a distorting effect on a game, and it's much more pronounced in 4-5 player PBEMs than it is in a Pitboss even. Again, not so much a criticism of this game, more a general comment on how a lot of these maps are coming out.

5) Not a big fan of unpillageable metal on a cramped "you must fight" map. Take Sian for instance. He rushed for Horse Archers, but there's no way on earth he ccan conquer me because my copper is totally unreachable. Normally your land is vulnerable from several spots, one of which is bound to be copper/iron/etc... But in this case, your copper was protected by infinite peaks. It reinforces the idea that it's a land rush to get 2 Oasis and then hunker down. If you grok that out and play it right - you end up where Luddite is. If you don't, you lose before 50 turns are up as the rest of us did.

The good

1) I do like the general concept of juicy land to race for - in this case the oasis. And I don't actually mind the funkiness of the plains oasis and lake fish and all that - I loved all the map weirdness of PBEM32. I don't think the execution here is good, but the idea is great. If the middle "Sahara desert" was actually habitable land all the way up, I think this would have been a really interesting map.

2) I'm also a fan of tough-to-reach land that is good - which is what the far north looks like from what I can see. It would be difficult to defend but rewarding. I think that map concept is an interesting one, which is why I was pursuing the artist strategy.

3) Weird quirks aside, this map looks cool. So I understand why all the lurkers would probably react "ohh cooool" and slap their approval on it while us players groan.

Anyways, again, I really appreciate the time Mist put into the map so please don't take this too whine-y . I do wish, though, that we had been a bit more specific in our request. I also think some of these critiques may be beneficial to talk about for future games.

[scooter]

When I'm thinking "non-gimmicky" I normally am thinking something close to "if the map generator didn't suck, it would be plausible that it could have generated this." However, I've never communicated that, so obviously people have different ideas on what this means. I'll be more specific in the future .

FWIW, PBEM32 was "gimmicky" according to this definition and yet I loved that map. So I realize I'm slightly inconsistent here. I'm struggling to more properly define gimmicky here, so yeah, again I'm not being as accurate as I should be. So I recognize this comment of mine is probably somewhat contradictory, and I'm not sure how to fix it.

[Lewwyn]

You got Mist'd.

[Mist]

You got Mist'd.

You and your dwarven grudges :neenernee

Thanks for the feedback scooter, I don't entirely agree with your assessment, but I need to meditate some more on proper way to frame an answer.

[scooter]

Thanks for the feedback scooter, I don't entirely agree with your assessment, but I need to meditate some more on proper way to frame an answer.

Yeah, and it's probably slightly unfair because I'm guessing you can't give me a full response without being spoilery right now. And again, take my comments with a grain of "I'm biased and not omniscient and I'm dead last in this game" salt .