American Politics Discussion Thread

[T-hawk]

Trump's approval rating stays where it is because he's effective.  He's done nothing to make a supporter lose support - compare to the disasters of Obama promising to fix health care and race relations.  Trump has delivered on his platform of reducing illegal immigration, domestic economic freedom and jobs, strong foreign policy both economic and military (ISIS and North Korea).  He's been able to deliver because he's such a strong personality able to ignore opposition and criticism.  And the few things he hasn't (the literal wall) he's been able to shift blame elsewhere.  Trump has been a dream of a Republican president for me, super strong and favorable economically while not having to be tied to regressive social policies like anti-LGBT and abortion.  I'll take any kind of personal conduct if it delivers like he has.  I don't have to talk to his face ever.

Here's another explanation, which sounds silly but really has some truth.  Trump actually does what everyone likes to imagine they would do when they strike it rich.  Gold-plated penthouse toilets.  Cheeseburgers on a private jet.  Imported trophy wife.  Name on skyscrapers in neon lights.  Reality TV boss.  He's exactly how ordinary people project themselves into as the culmination of the American dream.

Finally, there's a floor of about 25% support for any Republican no matter what, since those are the single-issue Second Amendment voters that would favor Satan over Jesus if Satan gave them a gun.

[Charriu]

From what I see nothing has changed in regards to North Korea and ISIS was already down when he started.

Still the bonkers stuff he said and did with regards to the Hurricane are certainly not helpful. I see no point in more or less blaming the weather service for his faut pax. In the end tarnishing the reputation of the weather service endangers lives.

Here's another explanation, which sounds silly but really has some truth.  Trump actually does what everyone likes to imagine they would do when they strike it rich.  Gold-plated penthouse toilets.  Cheeseburgers on a private jet.  Imported trophy wife.  Name on skyscrapers in neon lights.  Reality TV boss.  He's exactly how ordinary people project themselves into as the culmination of the American dream.

Thank god I'm not an ordinary person.  I would not want anything you mentioned. But then again I'm not American either.

[Gustaran]

Trump's approval rating stays where it is because he's effective.  He's done nothing to make a supporter lose support - compare to the disasters of Obama promising to fix health care and race relations.  Trump has delivered on his platform of reducing illegal immigration, domestic economic freedom and jobs, strong foreign policy both economic and military (ISIS and North Korea).  He's been able to deliver because he's such a strong personality able to ignore opposition and criticism.  And the few things he hasn't (the literal wall) he's been able to shift blame elsewhere.  Trump has been a dream of a Republican president for me, super strong and favorable economically while not having to be tied to regressive social policies like anti-LGBT and abortion. 

If you look at it closely, his "success" seems to be mostly smoke and mirrors

a) Immigration: If you check the number of illegal immigrants it is slowly declining since around 2007, I do not see any "Trump effect":

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/u...-total.png

In addition, the US has now camps which could be considered as a breach of human rights, where children sleep on the floor and are not provided sufficient food or basic hygiene.
One could also wonder if ending something like DACA, which punishes immigrants who are actually fairly well integrated into US society, is a smart policy. In general, there is no realistic comprehensive plan to deal with illegal and legal immigration aside from building the infamous "wall", which will not happen for a variety of reasons.


b) Economy: The US economy is certainly doing well, but again one could ask if that is because of Trump or despite of Trump?
Trump has initiated a tax reform which will add huge debt to the US down the line and will mostly benefit rich people and corporations.
His denial of climate change and support of outdated energy sources like coal will probably hurt the US economy in the long run as well.
Moreover, he has started a trade war with China, which is probably the single biggest threat to the world economy right now and actually already damages some of his core voters:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/...8abd281271


c) Foreign Policy: Is this supposed to be a serious? Trump is the biggest joke on the world stage, people just have to deal with him because he is the US President. Kim Jong-un is probably laughing his ass off at the moment. He got several meetings with Trump, which hugely benefited his status on the world stage. Trump got nothing tangible in return except a few photos. Kim Jong-un knows how Gaddafi ended and will never abolish his nuclear weapons, because it's the only thing that guarantees his status as a dictator.

As for beating ISIS, I fail to see how Trump had any impact there. For years, the US strategy has been to fight a slow ground war by supporting local anti-ISIS groups like the Kurds.
The only thing about Trump's foreign policy that comes to mind as "strong", is that he personally seems to like authoritarian leaders like Kim, Putin and MBS way more than other democratically elected leaders.

Now on the negative side, there are certain Trump actions which are damaging the political system (seemingly no real concern about Russian interference in elections, considering free media as a nuisance, trying to undermine the independence of the federal reserve, no respect for separation of powers, racist comments about minorities, just to name a few).

And don't get me wrong: I do not care one bit, if Trump has a golden toilet, or if he has his 4th trophy wife, or if he plays golf 24/7. That's his personal decision and as opposed to some of the US public, I do not feel that his private life should reflect on his record in public. But if you look further than a few Twitter headlines at the actual numbers, Trump's record is pretty terrible, especially if you adhere to the idea that a President should be unifying figure for all people of a country.

[MJW (ya that one)]

People don't like to admit that they are picking the lesser of two evils so if you don't approve trump you are very likely to vote DEM. Trump has very poor ratings outside the GOP. Now there are some people who do admit that they vote for the lesser of two evils because the generic ballot would be D+20 (60-40=20) not D+7. But his hardcore base and that is enough to keep him afloat.

Other countries you would just pick another party. Even in other FPTP you can vote 3rd party (Brexit, Lib Dem) but USA's open primaries make the only two matter because it's much easier to take over a party then to make a new one.

[ipecac]

why on earth would anybody still support a President Trump - even if you were to agree on his policies?

There are plenty of people who care more about substantial actions, lots are inured to the latest media outrage over the latest controversial Trump tweet.

For conservatives, it's easy. He appointed 2 Supreme Court judges that they want, he defunded Planned Parenthood, defanged Obamacare, got them out of TPP and the Paris Accord, and RBG will most likely bump off soon. And he's not likely to flake on guns. On the wall, he just assigned 3.6 billion to it, so construction should proceed at a good rate.

[DaveV]

why on earth would anybody still support a President Trump - even if you were to agree on his policies?

There are plenty of people who care more about substantial actions, lots are inured to the latest media outrage over the latest controversial Trump tweet.

For conservatives, it's easy. He appointed 2 Supreme Court judges that they want, he defunded Planned Parenthood, defanged Obamacare, got them out of TPP and the Paris Accord, and RBG will most likely bump off soon. And he's not likely to flake on guns. On the wall, he just assigned 3.6 billion to it, so construction should proceed at a good rate.

Except he does flake on guns nearly every time there's a high profile mass shooting, until Wayne LaPierre browbeats him into maintaining the NRA hard line.

And the wall money wasn't so much assigned as stolen from the military he claims to respect so much, as part of his bogus national emergency.

Personal style does make a difference. Trump has alienated US allies with his intransigence and petty insults, and foreign governments now realize that all you have to do is flatter him and put on a big parade and you can get a good deal.

[darrelljs]

The best part is that it looked like it was tacked on by an intern with a sharpie.

Darrell

[ipecac]

Except he does flake on guns nearly every time there's a high profile mass shooting, until Wayne LaPierre browbeats him into maintaining the NRA hard line.

He makes soothing noises for the moderates, and after their attention inevitably shifts to something else, Trump does what he wants.

And the wall money wasn't so much assigned as stolen from the military he claims to respect so much, as part of his bogus national emergency.

The emergency is real, and he has the authority to reassign the funds.

Personal style does make a difference. Trump has alienated US allies with his intransigence and petty insults,

Heads of state are as pragmatic as ever.

and foreign governments now realize that all you have to do is flatter him and put on a big parade and you can get a good deal.

There's no point in rebutting this sort of preconceived notion. There is only waiting for Trump to win again, and the accompanying wailing of those who are against him. They will ask "how could this happen?", but as before don't actually want to know the answer.

[Charriu]

And the wall money wasn't so much assigned as stolen from the military he claims to respect so much, as part of his bogus national emergency.

The emergency is real, and he has the authority to reassign the funds.

Still this wall won't solve any problem, because of stuff like ladders, tunnels or just walking around it. And yes you might employ more people to the border patrol, but do you really want to pay for all of this for the next decades, when you could use the money for other solutions that might actually work?

[ipecac]

Still this wall won't solve any problem, because of stuff like ladders, tunnels or just walking around it.

Yes, it can be better, with cameras, drones, and underground detectors.

but do you really want to pay for all of this for the next decades, when you could use the money for other solutions that might actually work?

What other solutions would work?