PBEM #1 - Saladin [Spoilers]

[Iamjohn]

Well I appreciate the suggestion Sulla but I can't sit idly? idely? idley? (ya I think that's it)

It's Idly

c) won't do more than attack an invading stack into mine or MH's land, aka I won't invade until the end of T125.
d) he's open to pursue any avenue of aggression against me as he wishes.
e) if pushed to far I shall break point c.

IMO if you're set on break a NAP I'd at least go all the way, any other way imo you'll just be making everyone irritated at you with out actually doing any good (for one side attacking, and on the other side by doing nothing). Really no matter what you do you'll be doing something dastardly, in the end you just need to pick your poison, make sure you're getting sufficient pay out in some form and then run with it. Both sides know you've painted yourself into a corner, if you're not willing to be Imperio you need to be PAL and be willing to throw in your lot firmly into one corner, anything else you'll just be in the middle and get squished by someone in the end.

[athlete4life10]

you'll just be in the middle and get squished by someone in the end.

The likelihood of this happening is pretty good regardless of which side I choose.
I put c in there as I thought it might lesson the diplomacy hit against Dreyllin though that probably doesn't matter considering I'll be going to war against him and I probably won't be able to invade with any kind of force until just around that time anyways. I do see your point though as sitting on the fence will just piss everybody off...

[Iamjohn]

Also remember that (for the most part) when RB had to knife imperio in the back (and to a much greater degree then you're doing) the community here agreed with the actions, and said it was necesary. You've demonstrated that you would rather not do what you're about to do, but you have to. In the end I don't think people can realistically expect anything different from you.

[Jabah]

One solution to 'not break any NAP' might be to GIVE (part of) your stack to mh once it is in his land. That way you could always say to Dreylin you didn't attack him.
(or probably better, give it somewhere where Dreylin can't see, even if the demographics should tip him...)

[Mortius]

1. Breaking a NAP is pretty lame. It's like cheating :thumbsdow

2. You will not be trusted in future MP games

3. When did Dreylin break the NAP with you???

[athlete4life10]

1. Breaking a NAP is pretty lame. It's like cheating :thumbsdow

2. You will not be trusted in future MP games

3. When did Dreylin break the NAP with you???

When he spy bombed me. Sure it's not declaring war but it's certainly an aggressive act, one to which I took serious affront to. We had a lot of emails back and forth over it and Dreylin is aware of how I feel about that.

@Jabah I have considered that as an option...maybe I should give more consideration to that...

[Broker33]

When he spy bombed me. Sure it's not declaring war but it's certainly an aggressive act, one to which I took serious affront to. We had a lot of emails back and forth over it and Dreylin is aware of how I feel about that.

@Jabah I have considered that as an option...maybe I should give more consideration to that...

I dont know if I would take a spybomb in itself as an agressive act and grounds for breaking a NAP. It could be construed as just banking EP's for defensive purposes to get visibility. Have there been any thefts or other agressive spy actions? Was it prohibited as part of the NAP?

[Mortius]

When he spy bombed me. Sure it's not declaring war but it's certainly an aggressive act, one to which I took serious affront to. We had a lot of emails back and forth over it and Dreylin is aware of how I feel about that.

Sorry, but it seems like a cheap excuse, and not a real reason.

Didn't you sign the NAP after Dreylin spybombed you???

Isn't it your message, sent to Dreylin several turns after the spybomb:

[COLOR="Red"]"Hey Andy,

Again at work so not a full amount of time to respond. Let me just confirm accept the flat NAP until T125. We'll certainly discuss renewal options in the future...

Taylor"[/COLOR]

[SIZE="5"]LAME[/SIZE] :

[Dantski]

I'd consider a spybomb breaking a NAP. However if the NAP was signed after the bomb then thats definitely no excuse.

In response to Mortius, I think NAP's ruin these types of games and backstabbing is a part of Civ and has countless precedents, you do whats best for your Civ in THIS game. Athlete is in a difficult position here and personally I'd encourage him to play 'dirty' if thats the only hope he feels he has (not saying it is).

Breaking a NAP is not cheating, sorry thats just ludicrous. As for future MP games, people will probably know why the 'culprit' did what they did and make their own decisions.

So athlete do what you think is best for Arabia!

[athlete4life10]

Dreylin spybombed me during our first NAP. He stole engineering with 2 attempts (first one failed). How anybody can not say that's not an aggressive act against me is crazy. That being said, yes I did agree to a new NAP with Dreylin shortly after that. I did have an expectation to receive some compensation but it wasn't strongly communicated to Dreylin and it never materialized.

The whole thing with this is that Dreylin set the precedent. He's ok with breaking an NAP so it must be allowed from my end. As well he knows I'll be breaking it with either him or MH and I've given him his chance to make his point. It was very well put together but really there are 2 reasons why I don't want to switch. MH never did anything against me and we've been allied so long it feels wrong to backstab him, whereas mentioned previously, Dreylin set the precedent. Sure it's not right to backstab him either but I can reconcile that with my conscience. Secondly given my snacksize army I can't do more than just help MH defend and slow Dreylin. Sure overtime it favours us but MH has to hold up for a few turns first before we can start to turn the tide, so right now we're the underdogs.

For those of you whom have some intense feelings about NAP's, well backstabbing is a part of any MP game whether people like it or not. Does it happen all the time, no but it does happen so I'm certainly not the first. Its time I throw my weight into one corner and ride it from there. Besides, attacking my closest ally would be a huge affront to most people. Just because others choose to word in specifics into their NAP's doesn't mean actions like this shouldn't be considered when deciding on the simple ones I have.