WW 19 Game Thread - Mobster Mayhem - GAME OVER

[uberfish]

Again WTF lewwyn. You accuse ME of lawyering? You are the one taking everything I post and immediately trying to paint it in the most negative light possible. You never at any point stop in your tunnel vision to consider if I might have done what I did as town, and when I defend myself you just take that as more evidence that I'm guilty.

I can't believe you don't understand the fundamental maths behind vigilante shots and odd/even numbers. We had little to gain and a lot to lose if you were wrong. You don't think you could get Zakalwe lynched with Pind locked on him and Serdoa against him? Seriously? And the only "defence" (lol) of him was me revising one of my two scum tells on him to be not that suspicious while maintaining the other? And Selrahc being highly scummy on day 3 was the only reason no one else got much traction.

And how is my voting Mero the same thing as azza voting selrahc? I wasn't voteparking, or avoiding mentioning anyone else during the day. Look, the fact that X says "I vote Y because of Z" has to be taken in context. If X votes Y because Z is lurking, but X is lurking himself, that's suspicious. THAT is the particular scum tell I was using on azza/mero/selrahc, and you know, a 50% hit rate on it so far (correct on selrahc and wrong on mero) isn't bad when 25% of the game is scum.

In brick's last game where we mislynched azza as town he was around just after the deadline on Merovech's lynch, so yes he IS around at deadline at least sometimes.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Much as I hate to admit it, 9am deadline is not actually that difficult to make if I need to. And I know Azza is same timezone as me.
Daylight Savings actually being remotely useful for a change :/

Tempted to vote him again for consistency. Though voting record would appear to indicate that's not the best idea.

Very much disliking MJW's first post today. Not really sure what it was intended to accomplish.

What post are you talking about? Are you talking about my self-vote post? Well I was not trying to accomplish anything because there is nothing to accomplish. I think uberfish is dead no matter what he does. I think its close enough to impossible for uberfish to live to confrimed lewwyn's attack that it is not worth my time to really try something.

[uberfish]

Much as I hate to admit it, 9am deadline is not actually that difficult to make if I need to. And I know Azza is same timezone as me.
Daylight Savings actually being remotely useful for a change :/

Tempted to vote him again for consistency. Though voting record would appear to indicate that's not the best idea.

Very much disliking MJW's first post today. Not really sure what it was intended to accomplish.

I don't know, but MJW, Q and Azza are pretty much doing nothing today except to sit back and let Lewwyn try to lynch me. likely scum pool? Yeah.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Much as I hate to admit it, 9am deadline is not actually that difficult to make if I need to. And I know Azza is same timezone as me.
Daylight Savings actually being remotely useful for a change :/

Tempted to vote him again for consistency. Though voting record would appear to indicate that's not the best idea.

Very much disliking MJW's first post today. Not really sure what it was intended to accomplish.

I don't know, but MJW, Q and Azza are pretty much doing nothing today except to sit back and let Lewwyn try to lynch me. likely scum pool? Yeah.

If it were not for you outrageous posts just before night-over you would have a chance of living and today would not be boring. But because today is boring I would have to work hard to inject some life into to it. And I feel lazy right now.

[uberfish]

What about you actually not be lazy and read the fucking game then?

[uberfish]

I mean... MJW you don't read like you care about my alignment at all, you haven't said what YOU find suspicious about my posts, I'm just someone who has to be lynched because I'm being attacked by confirmed town. WTF.

[uberfish]

and repost due to this being lost in noise.

My result PM was "you found nothing to steal". Not that I was blocked, or that it failed, or whatever. It specifically states that there was no item for me to steal.

So unless "you found nothing to steal" means that I was jailed? But that doesn't make sense to me. So I'm pretty confident I wasn't jailed.

The result on my n1/n2 scans was returned by Brick "no result", I asked Brick if I'd get the same "no result" if I was jailed/blocked and he confirmed it.

A town thief should therefore also have gotten a "no result" to maintain ambiguity on whether their action had been interfered with by the jailer or their target didn't have an item

However, since scum had the jailer, a SCUM thief could have been given or claimed the result "you found nothing to steal" by the GM because there was no way to block the action, or Azza could simply have claimed that way in the knowledge that his faction had the jailer.

[Qgqqqqq]

Why repost?
If it was lost in the noise there its not going to be any better here.

[Qgqqqqq]

If he had the ballot on his team, why does be care about claiming in case he's got an item?
Why not just claim truthfully?
Also if you honestly thought that BRick would alter the result for the team, then well

[Serdoa]

I'm not sure I understand what is going on right now. Though if I had to guess, I would say village is ripping itself apart, unable to even stop for a minute to think. Lets go through some posts:

Serdoa this is what you are referring to?

bah....this is kind of silly...

what about the rule about passing items to people who die?? I was trying to figure out how both Selrahc and Serdoa *could* be telling the truth and that is one way. Serdoa got something, but it wasnt passed to him directly - it was a random redirection - so Selrahc didnt get a result on it.

Well, do you believe someone passed novice an item, despite him clearly being nightkill-target no.1? How likely is that you think? I mean we had quite a few item passes in that night.

* waterbat didnt know that was possible

yeah novice was the 100% night kill target - but everyone knew that - well everyone except the cloak i guess

Azza

I've read it a couple times, but I don't understand why novice was nightkill target #1 and I don't get the 100% night kill target bit. What does that even mean?? And everyone knew that?

Waterbat try to explain it.

Serdoa, I don't even understand how you could think that the 100% was a msg to you?

Lewwyn, put yourself in my shoes for a minute. I received on N2 the gas-can. I was certain that waterbat had passed it to me, that I could have it gotten randomly never really occured to me. I mean, honestly, he passes it to novice and the only other confirmed villager gets it randomly? I guess in reality it is not more or less unlikely than you or uberfish getting it, but for me it was. I was certain I got it directly passed. Therefore when Selrahc claimed he had watched me and no one visited me, I immediately asked BRick via PM for confirmation that in the case of someone passing me an item Selrahc would have been told. And he confirmed. Then waterbat makes his statement about how Selrahc and I both could say the truth.

And now, what do I do? Of course, the only thing viable, I ask him how possible he believes it is that someone passed an item to novice. What I really ask with that is if he passed his gas can to novice. Because we had agreed that he would pass it to novice or to me. You see, if he did pass it to novice, his answer as villager should of course be "Well, it could have happened." But no, he states "Yeah, novice was 100% nightkill-target". His answer implied that he didn't pass it to novice, because he was 100% certain novice was going to die - so why would he as villager? That would get the can randomly to someone, thats not good.

And then N3 begins, and I have to pass the card. To whom should I pass it? Of course I choose waterbat, the guy who passed me the can and who should know that I need to pass the card. And what does that guy first thing on D4? He claims I am scum because I passed him the card. But there are several things not making sense here:

- If he passed me the can directly, he should know 100% why I passed it -> he didn't pass it to me, we can be certain of that
- If he did pass the can to novice, why did he write that novice was the 100% nightkill target? Or rather, why did he still pass him the can?
- Why does he fear I want to set him up for a (mis)lynch? I mean at the point we are at, there is simply no way I could not have told the truth. Why? Because if we agree that there is just one scum left and no one has died nor claimed the vest till now it is certain I must have had the vest, no matter my alignment. If it wasn't shot on N1, than how could I hold the card together with the vest till N3? I couldn't, I would have had to pass one of them on in N2. So, the only conclusion remaining is that I got shot N1 and the vest got destroyed. And that means that scum tried to kill me and failed. What in return makes it obvious that I am a villager.

Please guys, look at those point, especially the first two and tell me how his statements make sense. They do not imo. This is not simply phrasing or some such and also him being unable to read my implied context. Even if you read the sentences straight up as they stand there, the question remains why he answers that novice was the 100% nightkill-target and why he still passed him the can.

The only thing I was wondering about was why scum would pass the can to novice. Why not just state he passed it on without actually doing it? Reason: Because the item seer (uberfish) is indeed village and so they had to fear to be scanned.

tl;dr

Waterbat has certainly passed the gas can to novice on N2, despite claiming on D3 that novice certainly was nightkill-target no.1 in this night. He did that instead of keeping it and just stating he passed it, because he was under pressure and feared the item seer could scan him if he doesn't pass it on for real. But he didn't want it to land in the hands of a confirmed villager and so passed it to the one he knew was going to get killed.

Now vote to lynch him

-Move onto the next part about Azza. Specifically Uber doesn't like that Azza parked his vote on SELRAHC after Tas got shot. I wonder why. And tell me why would Scum Azza try to bus Scum selrahc so early when Scum Zak is trying his Darndest to get Mero or Matt or MJW lynched to save Selrahc? In conclusion a weak argument against Azza that at this point now actually stands in Azza's favor and works to prove Azza is in fact not scum.

Lewwyn, just one comment: Azza won WW17 for us because he stayed on TT from the start on. Despite TT being his scum-buddy. Despite me vigourosly fighting to save TT. Clearing Azza, as much as you might be right in this game, because of that is not good. He will simply not care what his scum-buddies do. Thats why he is such a good scum, because he plays as if he is SK. Don't ever trust Azza only because of voting.