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One thing to keep in mind about these sort of exercises is that even if they're interesting (and they are!), they're essentially a one-shot deal. We find out which deck is better and then no one has a reason to play the worse deck. That's again SevenSpirit's point about non-randomness increasing power disparity and lowering deck diversity.
No one knows for sure what the most powerful deck or two will be, even though many of us think it absolutely won't be pirates, but once everyone knows, there's less fun to be had, at least not without format changes or new cards.
One way stacked or fixed decks could be interesting is in a duplicate bridge style tourney where pre-determined deck stacks are created by the organizers and then the skill is being a better pilot over many decks than others. Far from being implemented but I think that would be a fun challenge.
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And I'm sure there's an interesting Call Pet into Tundra Rhino and Ghazrilla OTK deck out there too. Innervate + Coldlight seer is the counter to it, to screw up the Hunter draw on turn 1.
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(June 11th, 2015, 14:52)Ichabod Wrote: Call pet into Savana Highmane FTW!
It is still a random card. Sorry.
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(June 11th, 2015, 14:46)flugauto Wrote: (June 11th, 2015, 14:33)Kuro Wrote: I will suggest three decks:
A Ramp Druid
A Control Warrior
A Face Hunter
As things to fight. Something to remember is that a lot of cards would probably change when you don't have to worry about smoothing out card draw: For example, I imagine Druid would have almost exclusively 5+ cards even compared to normal outside of double Yeti for the start, Wild Growth (Only one, you do not need two when you always draw the one when you want, I imagine), and Big Game Hunter.
If we're actually doing that, then we also need to set rules on what even counts for both the decks we are talkign about AND the Pirate deck. Otherwise, it could just be argued "You add infinite tech and you can win" which is technically accurate but also requires you to see the future for what deck you will fight every time and make massive changes, and even non-randomness does not allow one to see the future.
(Also, in a non-random draw world, a weak combo is anything that does not result in huge damage, huge card advantage or anything else huge and is not a OTK without excessive setup.)
EDIT: Also I assume in the land of non-random, Ysera and Nefarian just give whatever cards you want?
Ok, lets start wit Ramp Druid then. Make your list, 30 cards. I will try to find a pirate deck.
Ysera and Nefarian are still random. Unstable portal and Webspinner too.
Here's an example "Ramp" (Since it hardly uses ramp given the non-random format) Druid deck, then:
0:
1x Innervate
2:
1x Wild Growth
2x Wrath
3:
1x Big Game Hunter
1x Savage Roar
4:
2x Chillwind Yeti
2x Swipe
5:
2x Druid of the Claw
2x Sludge Belcher
1x Loatheb
1x Harrison Jones
6:
1x Force of Nature
1x Sylvanas Windrunner
1x Emperor Thaurissan
1x The Black Knight
7:
2x Ancient of Lore
2x Ancient of War
1x Dr. Boom
1x Baron Geddon
8:
1x Chromaggus
1x Ragnaros the Firelord
9:
1x Cenarius
1x Ysera
Total: 30/30
Perhaps somewhat low on Taunt, given the possible prevelance of aggro decks, however I feel that this works well enough. A single Innervate and Wild Growth because when you can pick your early game, you only ever need one. If you object to Harrison we can change it, but my logic is that sometimes it is teched already and the card is significantly more powerful in a format where you can pull it out when any opponent ever plays a weapon, The Black Knight is included for similiar reasons.
After that, I just selected big cards I saw and liked and threw in to create a control-ish deck. Another option would be to just combo out with super Shade of Naxxramas shenanigans, however I did not go that route because it felt significantly more complex to theorycraft. There's also a few things that are more personal choice (Like the 2x Ancient of Lore over, say, a Deathwing you can always draw when you need to wipe + something like a Cairne or more card draw).
Also note that Sir Bruce's point is correct.
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(June 11th, 2015, 14:57)flugauto Wrote: (June 11th, 2015, 14:52)Ichabod Wrote: Call pet into Savana Highmane FTW!
It is still a random card. Sorry.
It's not random, you draw the next card from your deck. Just place Call Pet as the 5th card of the deck and Highmane as 6th. Go first, play call pet when you draw it on turn 2. Go second, play call pet with coin on turn 1. Both times, you'll draw the Savanna. Not random at all.
Far Sight (is it, the 3 mana shaman card?) would also be pretty good.
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(June 11th, 2015, 14:55)Sir Bruce Wrote: One thing to keep in mind about these sort of exercises is that even if they're interesting (and they are!), they're essentially a one-shot deal. We find out which deck is better and then no one has a reason to play the worse deck. That's again SevenSpirit's point about non-randomness increasing power disparity and lowering deck diversity.
No one knows for sure what the most powerful deck or two will be, even though many of us think it absolutely won't be pirates, but once everyone knows, there's less fun to be had, at least not without format changes or new cards.
One way stacked or fixed decks could be interesting is in a duplicate bridge style tourney where pre-determined deck stacks are created by the organizers and then the skill is being a better pilot over many decks than others. Far from being implemented but I think that would be a fun challenge.
We can only find the best of 2 decks. There are many other decks, the whole meta. And the meta is changing.
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(June 11th, 2015, 14:57)flugauto Wrote: (June 11th, 2015, 14:52)Ichabod Wrote: Call pet into Savana Highmane FTW!
It is still a random card. Sorry.
Why would it still be random? Call Pet is just card draw and you said:
"Choose cards at the beginning of every game. Choose which specific card you want to draw every turn. Choose when you play a card draw like Arcane Intellect."
Ergo, you should always be able to pick what you draw with Call Pet.
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(June 11th, 2015, 15:01)flugauto Wrote: (June 11th, 2015, 14:55)Sir Bruce Wrote: One thing to keep in mind about these sort of exercises is that even if they're interesting (and they are!), they're essentially a one-shot deal. We find out which deck is better and then no one has a reason to play the worse deck. That's again SevenSpirit's point about non-randomness increasing power disparity and lowering deck diversity.
No one knows for sure what the most powerful deck or two will be, even though many of us think it absolutely won't be pirates, but once everyone knows, there's less fun to be had, at least not without format changes or new cards.
One way stacked or fixed decks could be interesting is in a duplicate bridge style tourney where pre-determined deck stacks are created by the organizers and then the skill is being a better pilot over many decks than others. Far from being implemented but I think that would be a fun challenge.
We can only find the best of 2 decks. There are many other decks, the whole meta. And the meta is changing.
The meta changes a lot less when every deck is stale and just being able to beat a popular pre-determined draw is a requirement to even be considered for the possibility of viability.
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(June 11th, 2015, 15:00)Ichabod Wrote: (June 11th, 2015, 14:57)flugauto Wrote: (June 11th, 2015, 14:52)Ichabod Wrote: Call pet into Savana Highmane FTW!
It is still a random card. Sorry.
It's not random, you draw the next card from your deck. Just place Call Pet as the 5th card of the deck and Highmane as 6th. Go first, play call pet when you draw it on turn 2. Go second, play call pet with coin on turn 1. Both times, you'll draw the Savanna. Not random at all.
Far Sight (is it, the 3 mana shaman card?) would also be pretty good.
Maybe these cards need a change in the non-random mode. Maybe.
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(June 11th, 2015, 15:04)flugauto Wrote: Maybe these cards need a change in the non-random mode. Maybe.
"Hunters don't need a nerf" - Blizzard.
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