[Spoilers] Biggus Decius and the Sucking Vampires (Bobchillingworth / Calabim)

[Bobchillingworth]

Wait I thought it gave one hammer per unhappy "red" citizen- but instead it's just one hammer for every population point above size one?

[Serdoa]

It gives one hammer for every "unhappiness" you have in the city. Say, you have 15 happy and 13 unhappy. You will have no citizen not working but will still get 13 hammers.

So, it is not only the citizens not working which provide a hammer.

[Bobchillingworth]

Oh hey cool, that's way more powerful than I had thought! Shows that I don't really put much mental effort into managing the vamps in sp, I guess


Also sounds then like growing into extra unhappiness is a pretty good idea- more red faces from overcrowding.

[DaveV]

The Governor's Manor gives, essentially, one hammer per population point after the first.

Shouldn't that be hammers = pop + 1, not pop - 1 (because of +1 unhappy for the manor itself)? A size 6 city gets 7 bonus hammers, not 5.

I loaded a save and grew a city into unrest to check whether the Governor's Manor gives hammers for unhappy population. The display is so wonky that when I checked in the past I missed the hammer from the unhappy population point, but it's definitely there. I can't believe I've played dozens of games with the Calabim without noticing this.

So: growing into unrest trades 2 food (3 if you're growing into unhealth) for one hammer. Not a good deal if you're building workers or settlers, but hard to argue against otherwise.

Edited: for clarity in 2nd paragraph.

[darrelljs]

You are right DaveV. Flauros is IMO the best leader in the game. Half cost Manors and Aristofarms all from Code of Laws .

Darrell

[DaveV]

Flauros is IMO the best leader in the game.

I absolutely agree. I tried playing a few games as Decius so I could give better advice to Bob, and it felt like playing one higher level of difficulty compared to Flauros. I'm hoping Bob can survive till he has zillions of raider vampires and justify his leader choice, but I would have chosen Flauros instead.

[Bobchillingworth]

Another update from Sareln:

Riuros (Priest of Winter) Str. 9 (6 +2 Cold +1 Fire): Channeling I,
Channeling II, Combat 1, Divine, Great Commander, Homeland, Ice I, Ice
II, Ice Resist, Medic I, Medic II, Orthus' Axe, Winterborn
Anagantios (Priest of Winter) Str. 7 (5 +2 Cold): Channeling I,
Channeling II, Divine, Homeland, Ice I, Ice II, Ice Resist, Medic I,
Medic II, Winterborn
Dumannios (Priest of Winter) Str. 7 (5 +2 Cold): Channeling I,
Channeling II, Divine, Homeland, Ice I, Ice Resist, Medic I, Medic II,
Winterborn
Sleet (Warrior) Str. 3: Combat I, Combat II, Combat III, Combat IV,
Healing Potion, Homeland, Shock I, Winterborn
Hail (Warrior) Str. 3: Combat I, Combat II, Homeland, Winterborn
Frost (Warrior) Str. 3: Homeland, Winterborn
Snowflake (Warrior) Str. 3: Homeland, Winterborn
Blizzard (Warrior) Str. 3: Homeland, Winterborn

Priests of Winter + Support I could probably stand against, but the
great commander and Orthus' Axe turns a implausible situation into an
impossible one. I'll be fleeing, but I may just be delaying the
inevitable by a handful of turns. I'll try not to feed him any more
XP then is necessary to prolong myself .

The bottom paragraph concerns a suggestion I made to him that he attempt to flee a settler off far into the unknowns to escape elimination. I think he's actually going to do it! No idea if that'll save him, and he's doomed for certain, but if he's a thorn in Selrahc's side it works great for me.


Selrahc also now possesses Sareln's second city, so it really is a hot war. I have no idea how I could handle his forces if he marches on me next, guess I'll have to hope that he stays his hand or tries Cull first.


I also met Cull this turn. Exchanged some pleasantries- he hasn't explored too far to the south, it seems, just around the large band of jungle directly below him. He has two cities.


Oh and PB now has three cities and used his world spell this turn, so he must have settled four of his three "big ones". I wonder if he realizes that since this is a large map he still can found one more mega-city?


Also RoK was founded a few turns ago, and Cull told me that PB got it- not a bad choice, since RoK temples are one of the few ways to make a decent (or any) income from Kurio settlements.

[DaveV]

So Selrahc has the axe. Bummer.

This is seriously bad. I hope you've given up on your worker steal plan: it seems to me that the only way to prevent Selrahc from winning is to form a coalition against him.

[Bobchillingworth]

Just got a major, major email from Sareln:

Bob,

I finish my settler this turn, and can make a delaying action in my
capital which will buy me a total of two turns to move my settler
before having to settle or be eliminated. This is not enough time to
flee the warzone in an effective manner. As previously detailed, I am
not able to stand against the forces that Selrahc has brought against
me - it would be gifting him XP. With that in mind, I have a rather...
unorthodox proposal for you.

I want to borrow Nubia.

I have no idea what state it is in, but borrowing a city is pretty
much the only way I can survive this. I have stockpiled about 80 GP,
which will be about 100 GP by the time the capital falls, give or take
a few either way - so I should be able to sustain my settling party as
I move into the southern Jungles, where it will be difficult for the
Illians to follow.

Once I have found a new place to settle down, you would retake Nubia
by force, which would relocate my capital to my own settlement.

I am offering to subordinate the Svartalfar to the Calabim. A complete
offering of my maps and recon each turn, whatever health and happiness
resources you need, whichever mana you need from my capital (mind
strikes me as particularly relevant with +3% to total research), a
source of elven workers, and control over my diplomacy.

This is not a partnership, it is a capitulation - though it may, and
probably should, be kept quiet from the other players.

To show that I can actually be valuable to you, a detailing of my assets:

Technologies:
Agriculture
Animal Husbandry
Exploration
Hunting
Ancient Chants
Mysticism

Units:

All units have commando and elven.

Warrior: C1, C2, C3
Warrior: C1, C2, Woodsman 1
Warrior: C1
Warrior:
Scout: C1, C2, Woodsman 1, Shock
Scout:
Worker
Worker
(next turn) Settler

My current recovery plan would involve starting on education
immediately for cottages and apprenticeship while building hunting
lodges, hunters, ravens for intel - following that with FoL.

You will be the only one I offer this deal to, and time is running out
for the necessary interactions to take place. If you gift me Nubia, I
will rename it for the interim to attempt to throw others off the
scent. The Svartalfar must disappear for a while, I think.

I understand if you're not willing to take this risk on me, I am in
effect asking you to sacrifice some of your hard earned advantage to
gain the Svartalfar as a vassal. It's up to you to decide whether or
not that's worth it. Speaking for myself, I've already learned quite a
bit from this game, and think it would be intriguing to play from a
"weak" position, since my AI games haven't really afforded me that
opportunity - so I won't be leaving you holding the bag by abandoning
the game from disinterest.

I just have no idea what I should do here... Nubia has my gold and gives me +15 beakers a turn or so... losing it will cripple my research and send Prespur back into unhapiness. I also lose all the progress I made on the monument. But the transfer is temporary, and I would potentially get so much out of this deal (free mana! free workers! etc), and it gives another body to throw at Selrahc.


I'm open to persuasion one way or another. Dave? =)

[DaveV]

Wow. Random thoughts:

1) Do you trust him? He could really screw you over by not giving back Nubia. Obviously you guys have some rapport, if he's making this offer to you only (cynical aside: do you trust him on that statement?).
2) How could he have a 4-promotion scout without Animal Mastery? Svart scouts are quite good at capturing animals, and some animal friends would certainly help with his long-term survival.
3) In the short term, this is certainly going to hurt you. As you said, your research will probably drop to near zero while his settler is in transit, and it could take him a long time to find a good settling spot (although I'm pretty sure his settler will be able to move fast through forests).
4) Selrahc will be able to figure out what you've done via the diplo screen (you lose a city, Sareln gains one), and may decide to finish the job by taking out Nubia. He already knows where you live.
5) Discussion in the pitboss lurker thread indicates that unit trading is disabled, so the only way for you to get elven workers is to declare war and capture them. He also can't gift you hunters, animals, priests, etc. Can priests of leaves cast bloom in allied territory?
6) He also can't gift techs, so he won't be able to give you any real help in the near term.

My bottom line: it sounds cool, it has the potential to help you out in a hundred turns or so, and it would be nice to save a fellow player, but it's going to gimp your research at a time when you really can't afford it. The situation is in crisis right now, and your own civ's survival is at stake.