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OH. I forgot to explain one more thing. Why did I order Nwy S Mos-Stp?
![[Image: RB%20Diplo3%20Spring10%20Orders.jpg]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16549110/RB%20Diplo3%20Spring10%20Orders.jpg)
I think Nwy-Stp was probably expected. The main issue here is that it's in Rowain's interest for a bounce to happen here. This is because if he wants any chance to pull this off, he needs a fleet build in Stp to happen. What I don't want is a guessing game in the Fall that ends in him getting a build (surely Mattimeo could just hand over a center to give him the build). So I figured supporting Moscow into Stp would mean he ends up in Stp in the spring, and make things really difficult on him in the Fall. That would also prevent him from forcing a bounce of Lvn-Stp and Mos-Stp. So now we're like this:
![[Image: RB%20Diplo3%20Fall10.jpg]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16549110/RB%20Diplo3%20Fall10.jpg)
Now what does he do? If he holds, no Stp build and game over. If he pulls out, I move in and win. He could possibly try to bounce from Lvn? BUt yeah. Anyways, gamestate just updated so I'm going to hit enter and go check it out.
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Thanks for the writeups, and congrats on a deserved win. I was wondering about the Nwy support of Mos-StP. Obviously it was to prevent Russia self-bouncing with Lvn-StP and Mos-StP, but I didn't see the deeper reason why you needed to prevent that.
Nice play on defending Munich in the spring. I was wondering how you could hold everything on that front against a fully coordinated RT.
What I don't see is how Russia needed to build in StP in fall 1910 or else you were guaranteed to capture it? He could have done something like pull back Lvn-Mos and Pru-Lvn in order to be defending StP with 3 units for all of 1911, and I don't see where you can get 4 units pressuring StP that fast?
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Quote:He could possibly try to bounce from Lvn?
Pretty much the entire diplomacy of the last phase was me trying to get him to order exactly that 
Good game, though.
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Indeed he did but honestly I rather took the risk (and believed you would order NWY - FIN ) to end it now than to drag the game out for 2 more years.
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T-hawk Wrote:What I don't see is how Russia needed to build in StP in fall 1910 or else you were guaranteed to capture it? He could have done something like pull back Lvn-Mos and Pru-Lvn in order to be defending StP with 3 units for all of 1911, and I don't see where you can get 4 units pressuring StP that fast?
I needed the build now to get into BAR and block France reaching it.
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scooter Wrote:...and then he STILL refused to support me into Munich. Not that it mattered, I took Kiel and Munich anyways. Still though, Rowain if you're trying to make friends with me in this game this is just bad.
You didn't need my support to get it only my non-supporting of Germany
Gaspar Wrote:Yeah, Rowain has a unique outlook. I mean I don't begrudge how he's played but I don't see how subtle manipulation and dishonesty is any worse than outright. Its diplomacy - people mislead, deceive and lie. There's no actual way for the game to be played otherwise and have a winner. It isn't and it is the way diplpomacy is played 
scooter Wrote:Second paragraph: I didn't parse this paragraph correctly at first but now I see (I think??) what he's saying..?? He sent that last email and assumed I would understand it and understand he was backing off? So it was written to directly prevent my kind of Kiel-Livonia nonsense that backfired? But seriously, how do I get that from this:
I guess I can see it in retrospect with the info I have now, but at the time, I'm not sure how this was supposed to communicate what he said. Crazy game. 
In hindsight you couldn't (thats also the reason why I was not angry at you) but understand this happened very late (well 1 hour past my usual nighttime) I was in a hurry to get some sleep and shot the simple missive in hope you understood it.
But out of spite or not. After your taking of DEN (and poreventing my 2 builds) I was pushed into a position where what ever I do only decides who of France or Turkey wins. You had on the above mentioned day a great deal of luck that Mattimeo cought me and talked to me .
Germany was already on board to take MUN from you before I told him in a similar short letter that the plan is off (which led to his demise and is the one thing I really feel bad about).
August 6th, 2012, 06:39
(This post was last modified: August 6th, 2012, 07:06 by Rowain.)
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It was a great game from you scooter  . Your stab against Germany was brilliantly and you succefully outplayed me (especially on the last move).
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T-hawk Wrote:What I don't see is how Russia needed to build in StP in fall 1910 or else you were guaranteed to capture it? He could have done something like pull back Lvn-Mos and Pru-Lvn in order to be defending StP with 3 units for all of 1911, and I don't see where you can get 4 units pressuring StP that fast?
It wasn't that I would have won it the following year, it was just that this was his best chance to get that build. Yes he could defend with Stp, Lvn, and Mos until I got a 4th unit in the area, but he couldn't do that and also empty out Stp at some point to get the build. So not getting a build this year meant the win was inevitable. It would have been a couple years away, but still inevitable as I was well on my way to getting the 4 units in the area. So yeah, main hangup is it was now or never to get a F Stp build.
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Rowain Wrote:But out of spite or not. After your taking of DEN (and poreventing my 2 builds) I was pushed into a position where what ever I do only decides who of France or Turkey wins. You had on the above mentioned day a great deal of luck that Mattimeo cought me and talked to me .
What's funny is I finally found out it was something Mattimeo said, but I never really got a straight answer on what he said to change your mind. There were a couple times where I wanted to make comments to you regarding the game, but I purposely said nothing at all times because I was terrified you would change your mind again .
Thanks for the comments Rowain. Hope you don't mind that I got quite frustrated at some of your moves - it's Diplomacy. And of course my opinion was quite biased and my knowledge was far from the omniscient view the lurkers get. Very fun game.
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scooter Wrote:What's funny is I finally found out it was something Mattimeo said, but I never really got a straight answer on what he said to change your mind. There were a couple times where I wanted to make comments to you regarding the game, but I purposely said nothing at all times because I was terrified you would change your mind again . Its one of the few explanations I gave in my thread during the game
here
scooter Wrote:Thanks for the comments Rowain. Hope you don't mind that I got quite frustrated at some of your moves - it's Diplomacy. And of course my opinion was quite biased and my knowledge was far from the omniscient view the lurkers get. Very fun game.
No problem  whats in the game stays in the game. Some of my moves do frustrate me too . Fun Game indeed
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