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Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)
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(September 8th, 2018, 04:22)AdrienIer Wrote: And she's right. Trump's core base (like 10-15% of the US population) is a basket of deplorables. Trump's core base is that 15% and then another 30% who side with them. Liberals don't realize that 30% exists. Liberals think they win the arguments by screaming racist-nazi-elitist at the 30% until they don't hear from them anymore... but they just shut up from being sick of it and then still go elect Trump anyway. That soft base isn't the hardcore flag-worshipping fag-hating brown-people-deporting deplorables. It's people like me who don't really care either way on that stuff. But we're sick of the liberal attitude that is literally trying to silence free speech and discussion, trying to win every argument by name-calling or censorship. Banning the likes of Alex Jones from every communications platform isn't going to stop people from holding such opinions. That just enrages people like me, that aren't cheerleaders for him, but hold as a higher concern his right to speak his opinions even if you don't like them. Censoring Alex Jones is a step on the way to tyrannical thought control. Resistance against that attitude is the hidden factor still holding together the Republican Party and its supporters, and what elected Trump and will re-elect him unless the left finds a stronger identity factor. The left doesn't see these deplorable-adjacents, that's why Hillary never walked back that comment. The thinking of the left stops at slapping on the "deplorable" label to dehumanize the target as if they don't exist. But they do and they're sick of the contempt and insults.
September 8th, 2018, 11:37
(This post was last modified: September 8th, 2018, 11:42 by Japper007.)
 (September 8th, 2018, 11:04)T-hawk Wrote: But we're sick of the liberal attitude that is literally trying to silence free speech and discussion, trying to win every argument by name-calling or censorship. Banning the likes of Alex Jones from every communications platform isn't going to stop people from holding such opinions. That just enrages people like me, that aren't cheerleaders for him, but hold as a higher concern his right to speak his opinions even if you don't like them. Censoring Alex Jones is a step on the way to tyrannical thought control. Alex Jones was banned from both Twitter and YouTube because these companies have an obligation to their advertisers to uphold a certain standard of decorum, no brand wants to assosiate itselve with Jones and his ilk, it's PR suicide. There's plenty of Right Wing and Conservative channels on YouTube that are still allowed to say what they want. And last I checked Trump was still one of the biggest personalities on Twitter. You just have to be respectful about it (hell Trump is very far from that even). What can I say, sometimes the free market works  You're a moderator for this forum right? What would you have done if someone started spewing Alex Jones level rhetoric, personal attacks and conspiracy theories over here? Like a forum, YouTube and Twitter are private enterprises that can keep whatever they want and ban whatever they do not. Also Jones isn't censored, the government has not silenced him or even attempted to do so. Last I heard of him he was trying to self-publish his videos, as is his right. That he probably won't attract as large a viewing there as on social media, is just the free market at work again. He needs to pull himself up by his bootstraps like a true right-winger. It's not YouTube's problem that his audience is too lazy to type in an URL or that he can not provide a good enough viewing experience to outcompete them, that's Jones'. Now forcing platforms to carry everything and have no choice about what to host, on the other hand, is a severe breach of their rights. Well at least we can both agree that the free market is an evil then. 
September 8th, 2018, 11:42
(This post was last modified: September 8th, 2018, 11:46 by AdrienIer.)
I'll be honest T-Hawk : if you generally side with the deplorables against those who fight the deplorables I don't care that you're offended by the use of that term. You yourself recognize them for what they are. You can probably see that Trump is appealing to their worst instincts for political gain. Do you really not care that these people are dangerous, that they destroy lives ?
Censoring Alex Jones should have been done earlier. He encourages people to go against mass shooter victims. He encouraged a guy to enter a pizza place with a gun to investigate "pizzagate". Those things are against the rules of Youtube etc, so they kick him out. They should have kicked him out long ago but they were being conciliatory (one could rather say they were being PC). What happens when someone posts an add on this forum as if it were a new thread ? A moderator deletes the account and the post. If someone were to post a porn image or an ISIS beheading image, same thing. That's because that's against the forum rules, and I don't see you crying about their right to free speech. Youtube and the others are privately owned companies. You're the one that wants them, as a private company, to have zero obligations and the right to do whatever they like. Or are they only allowed to do whatever they like when it doesn't affect your friends ? Edit : Haha congrats Japper for posting the same thing I did 5 minutes before me (September 8th, 2018, 04:57)AdrienIer Wrote: If you have the money for it, I think buying a house to spend your holidays/weekends in is a fine way of spending it. Much better than buying Exxon shares or something. There is this notion that because Bernie has high popularity, he'll do well in the general election. But the main reason he has high popularity is that he never made it to one. During the primary, Hillary and Bernie pulled punches on each other, but in a general election he'll have all his dirt dug out and publicised, and there goes his rosy reputation. Quote:He had 2 years in power, in which he had to deal with the biggest economic crash in our lifetime. After that the republicans gained control of congress and he had his hands tied. While I think he could have done more he didn't "fail big time". He just had a limited ability to bring the change he promised. Political opposition is only to be expected. The main reason why he disappointed is because he over-promised, and that's all on Obama. No need to make excuses for him. Quote:Yeah she didn't walk it back, probably thinking that if Trump got away with not walking back on his horrific comments she could as well. But some people have a very selective indignation, and don't care when someone "grabs them by the ... " but do care when the supporters of such a person are called deplorables. Yes, she was stupid, not recognising that a past comment about unspecified people is not the same as gravely insulting voters that she should be trying to win over. Quote:Terrible as in non charismatic. She was certainly not left wing enough for my taste, but by US standard she was somewhere between mediocre and ok Terrible as in unlikable and a nasty character, when she lost she put blame on everyone but herself, to absolutely no one's surprise. Quote:Calling the most racist, fascist, neo-nazi etc 10% of the US population deplorable seems pretty reasonable, I don't know why you disagree with me on that. It leads to quite a bit of pain, as Hillary waking everyday to not being president can testify. (September 8th, 2018, 11:37)Japper007 Wrote: no brand wants to assosiate itselve with Jones and his ilk Name me a brand which has become associated with Jones due to his presence on Youtube. Or, for that matter, name me an advertiser who ever complained about his presence. (Before recent scandal Alex Jones was only known to a select few lunatics on the right and a little larger share of lunatics on the left. And now he is trading blows - literally - with a US Senator on TV, so thanks for promoting him, Youtube.) |
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As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer |
