RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Mali

[dsplaisted]

Thanks for taking over SilentConfusion! And thanks for the effort you put into this game Twinkletoes. I can definitely sympathize with your feeling that it takes too much time to manage the civ. That's the same reason I quit

[SilentConfusion]

Sent this to Broker:

Broker...

Thanks for the welcome.

I was glad I got to talk to you a bit in game. It helps to talk to someone live about what's going on in the game.

I do intend to continue working towards a peaceful end game with you, Munro, and Dreylin as TT did. Whereas TT might have ended the game with a diplo vote, I am leaning towards continuing it. However if everyone else wants done with this game, I will follow and vote to end it.

TT has given me some info about the current diplomatic situation although I'm sure there are many more subtleties I haven't grasped yet. TT has agreed to stay on in an advisory role, but just doesn't have enough time to take the turn everyday.

As we agreed in game the deal is as follows:
-I move my GArtist into your territory next turn and gift it.
-You use it to start a GAge to get Lasers faster.
-You in turn gift to me a GP of whatever type is born in 5 turns or less, since it will take probably less than 5 turns with GAge.

This deal is acceptable to me because it is important that we work together to secure ourselves against nuclear strikes from rego and company. It is indeed very much in your favor as it gives you an earlier boost to your production and commerce along with allowing you to change civics earlier. Hopefully you will appreciate the gesture. The only thing I gain is being gifted Lasers a turn earlier. The advantage given to you will hopefully show our desire to continue our good relations with your civilization and reassure you that we have the intention of working towards a peaceful end game with you.

As far as our tech situation goes. We have changed our tech to Ad Flight, but we must gather gold for binary research. I believe you mentioned the intention to tech Composites for Modern Armor once you finished Lasers. Is that right?

Thanks again for being welcoming.

-SilentConfusion of Mali

I have not said how much time it will take me to get Ad Flight, and I am putting off putting beakers into it at the moment. I will most likely finish it and hand it around, but I won't be so quick about it.

One thing I don't like is how Broker has EP on me and can see my research. He knew I was teching SuperCond rather than a tech that would help them. I didn't want to make him worry about me right from the start. He will be cautious of me at first, so I wanted to ease his worries. Teching Ad Flight will do that.

This chat on gchat was had with Broker:

Paul: didnt notice you were online
me: Do you have contact info for Munro and Elkad. It wasn't in the tech thread OP and I just wanted to send everyone a note saying I'm taking over.
Paul: sent you a confirmation to your email. Did point out that I dont need GA to change civics. I have Cristo :D
me: Ah. Didn't realize that.
Good to know.
Paul: "Munro" <munro.online@gmail.com>, "Elkad" <davidetodd@gmail.com>,
me: Thanks for that.
Paul: welx
well TT knew I had it so instead of you having to search may as well tell you
me: Yeah, he could have.
Paul: were you plaining in joining in the fighting at all?
I know TT didnt have much of an army
me: The standing army of the Malinese is not very impressive.
It will take some time to rectify that.
Paul: you have alot of cities though
I had to give one of mine up or game would be over
me: That is true. When I came into the game it was surprising to me how it seemed like we had more cities than troops to garrison them.
Paul: most of my production lately has been towards nukes trying to protect our advantage
me: If rego decides to attack my cities I'll be hard pressed to stop him.
But I'll do what I can to build some defenses.
Paul: munro has promised you help defending
me: I noticed some of his troops in my cites.
Paul: plus we have missles
me: True.
Paul: I dont think he wants to let you lose any so he is adding extra defenders if he can
me: I will have to tell him how much I appreciate that when I write to him.
Paul: we were very glad TT kept up his end of the deal
we will support you any way we can defensivly
me: I'm teching Ad Flight. Do you know what the others are teching?
Paul: munro is military pump he dosent tech
I think lins just started up teching again. they were on cash and are doing refrig

One note: TT did indeed tell me that Broker had the Cristo Redentor and was likely going for culture, I just thought I'd act like I didn't know much to see how much he'd willingly give without asking.

From this I learn that Munro has been defending my cities, which I confirmed in game. I tried to play down my military intentions, even though right now it is honestly bare minimum. Some of my cities were only protected by Munro's troops. Lins is apparently teching refrig. I still haven't got out a message to him, but I need to. They want to defend my cites so their enemies don't get them, so that's nice. At this moment if Munro and broker wanted my land they could take it easily. Actually anyone could take my land pretty easily as I have few troops and am running a no bomb-shelter diplomatic gambit. My allies seem unlikely to attack me, and we've been able to maintain decent relations with our enemies, which is thanks to my predecessors.

We are large and weak, but not hated by any. I think this is a pretty good position to be in. Broker is definitely in the position to win. The best case scenario is if rego and company are not beaten and are able to launch a somewhat successful counter attack on Broker.

Broker is sitting back and lobbing a few nukes while munro does most of the fighting. This is perfectly fine with munro who wants to battle gloriously, but it puts Broker in a good spot. It is hard to get to him while munro is causing trouble and he can concentrate his empire on winning. People seem to think Dreylin will try a space race victory, although I haven't talked to him yet.

Broker, Munro, and Dreylin seemed locked firmly in an alliance. Now it seems the rest are locked in an alliance against them. Our civ is somewhat in the middle although we are allied with Broker and company. We will see if we can use this position of relative neutrality to our advantage in the future.

[SilentConfusion]

I had a long chat with Alex in gchat which shed light on a good many things I didn't know. He admits it's a biased account, but a biased account is more useful to me than a neutral account as it tells me how he's feeling.

I will try to highlight key components because it is long:

alexrdavies1: Oh - hello!
Are you free for a chat?
me: Sure.
alexrdavies1: Nothing of huge import, I simply wanted to say "hi"
me: Thanks, I guess you're almost as new to the game as I am.
alexrdavies1: And "thank you," I guess, for helping out Twinkletoes.
Yeah, 2 or 3 weeks.
Busy times!
me: So how long have we been at war?
alexrdavies1: Not long at all. I guess... five or six turns most likely.
Our war is not a conventional one, though.
me: May I ask what the issues are?
alexrdavies1: We are certainly on opposing sides, but we're not actually fighting each other.
Sure! I'll lay it out. Bear in mind I'm biased, although I'll try to keep this account neutral.
me: We're all biased.
I understand that.
alexrdavies1: The diplomacy in this game has centred around big teams of (in the beginning) five or six players a side.
The latest 'big shake-up' came just before I joined.
My nation and yours were at war with Elkad, who was allied with Regoarrarr.
(sort of)
Regoarrarr threatened my predecessor, making him stop the war with Elkad
So my predecessor and yours then agreed to ally with the team of Broker, Munro and Lin.
Against Rego.
me: I gleaned some of that from what TT has said, but I'm sure I there are many holes. Please continue.
alexrdavies1: This meant the world line-up was my predecessor, TT, Broker, Munro, Lin & Elkad vs Rego.
Sorry - Rego and sunrise.
At this point, even though we hadn't sorted out the details, I understand TT made some deals with Broker's team - later crucial.
Anyway, once we*did*talk details it became clear that Broker's team were hardly lining up as long-term friends. They were also (already) the biggest threat to win the game.
This is where I joined.
TT and I changed our minds and joined up with Rego and sunrise. Elkad also switched sides.
I should point out at this point that Elkad is trustworthy, he just has an unusual agenda:
He feels he can no longer win and just wants to go out in a blaze of glory, so he was lining up with whoever could give him that.
Anyway, the new line-up was Broker, Munro & Lin vs me, TT, Rego, sunrise & Elkad.
Our time signed deals together. Note this means TT had deals both ways.
That brings us up to 2 weeks ago. With me so far?
me: Sure am.
alexrdavies1: So, over the Easter weekend while most people were away on break, Broker had talks with TT, of which I don't know the details and don't wish to speak.
The upshot was that TT defected once again to join the Broker/Munro/Lin team.
However, because I had only signed deals with one party, I couldn't follow him - breaking one of the oldest partnerships in the game.
To make things more complicated, TT had just*gifted me his army.
me: I knew that the Shady Expanse and the Malinese were old friends in this game, so I was wondering what happened. When did he gift the army?
alexrdavies1: On the turn I joined up. At time, TT didn't actually realise that shadyforce was leaving.
[at the time]
me: Ah.
alexrdavies1: Yeah, he was a bit nervous. But I think he'd agree that despite the tensions between us in recent turns, we've been friendly out-of-game.
Anyway, war was brewing and it began when*Munro*declared and nuked me and Regoarrarr, while*Elkad*declared and attacked Broker.
I felt it would be a bit unfair to attack TT with his own army. However, Munro - who was nuking me - was on the other side of Twinkletoes, so I needed to get through somehow.
The deal we made was that I would declare war on TT and march slowly through his territory, but not attack any of his cities or units.
As that left me very exposed to Munro's nukes, TT promised in return that I wouldn't be nuked in his territory.
I am unclear as to exactly what happened next.
However, according to TT, he passed this on to Munro, but Munro refused to honour it. I have no way of knowing whether that's true or not, but my army was nuked and destroyed in TT's territory when I assumed it was safe.
And... that was about a turn ago. So here we are.
me: So our land was nuked?
alexrdavies1: Yes. I believe there's still about 1 square of radiation left.
None of your cities were hit.
TT was also logged in at the time, so I have to assume he knew about it.
Munro fired the nuke, for what it's worth.
me: I see. For what it is worth, I am sorry that it turned out that way.
NOt that I had anything to do with it or can do anything about it now.
Did the whole army get destroyed?
Because I didn't see it in my land.
alexrdavies1: 1 SAM survived.
I still have defenses, of course, but before long Munro will likely sweep through and kill me - though I intend to make it interesting for him.
TT's plan, largely dictated by a dislike of micromanagement, was to sit it out and hit 'end turn' for the rest of the game until Broker or Munro wins. Or even to vote for Broker in the UN victory.
Of course now you're here there are more options.
me: I am personally of the opinion that while I won't be fighting Munro, I would not mind at all if you were successful in your defense.
alexrdavies1: But we're still at war, and technically, the treaty where I won't attack you is void (I just don't have enough troops anymore).
It would certainly be good for you if I could hold him up.
me: Yes.
In my interest, you might say.
alexrdavies1: And to clarify what I said, I don't intend to attack you. I'm just pointing out our treaty is a bit... shredded.
me: Understood.
I would also understand if you are hesitant to enter into any future treaties with my civ.
considering the way the last one was treated.
alexrdavies1: Actually, considering what had happened, our relationship was amazingly good.
me: However, unlike TT, I am not afraid of micromanaging my empire and I am not content to just sit about and lose on purpose.
alexrdavies1: I'm all for that attitude - even if it hurts me at some point.
Though I suspect in the near future, I probably won't be a priority of yours.
me: Do you have good relations with rego?
alexrdavies1: I believe that your forces have grown considerably in the last few turns, but your army is still small. However given ~10 turns with the largest empire in the world... you could be a force in the near future, if you want to go that way.
Yes, I do.
TT did not, really.
me: I gathered as much, although I haven't had communications with rego yet.
alexrdavies1: He's nice. Friendly. Honourable. But also skilled and determined to win, so... watch out.
me: I know of him from other games, so I know what you say is true.
alexrdavies1: People who'd been in the game for longer than me felt that he would often make a lot of 'not-quite-promises' but be reluctant to commit in substance.
I have yet to see that for myself.
me: I read some accusations about that, but I too have not seen it and would personally find it not like him.
alexrdavies1: On the other hand Broker - well, I would rant about his conduct, but he's your ally, so, I won't.
me: He has a large empire, but it seems to be completely glowing orange right now.
alexrdavies1: Yes, well, nukes are quite decisive.
There was an offer tabled to ban them for everybody before I joined up.
me: I wouldn't mind if you let me know what my ally was like, as I have no idea.
alexrdavies1: However, Broker was on the verge of the Manhattan Project so didn't sign up.
Okay... I'll give my assessments.
First Dreylin: I have had little contact with him and know nearly nothing about him.
However he is closely aligned with both Broker and Munro, and seems to trust them completely.
He is also Munro's only source of Uranium.
Next, Munro.
This is speculation, but I get the feeling he is more about having fun in this game than winning.
'Having fun' for him means having built up a huge production base, which he now plans to leverage into a modern era army and have fun in modern war against his enemies.
Of course, he softened us into oblivion with nukes first, but...
Munro is pleasant and a 'no hard feelings' type who prefers to keep promises, but not if he feels it's strongly in his interests to break them.
So he's 'mostly honourable.' The strike against my army comes under that heading.
He is now the world's biggest military threat due to production, nukes, and willingness to fight.
Finally, Broker.
.
Broker is the 'mouthpiece' for the three-way alliance which is almost certain to win.
He is also its self-appointed winner.
me: Yeah I noticed that.
alexrdavies1: He has built a tech base on the back lines and, without wars to worry about, has improved his land very well. He is the game's best techer, I reckon.
He is also close to a cultural victory. It's not imminent, but it would come before Space.
He is probably also considering a diplomatic victory through the UN.
However he has not mentioned that to me.
me: He has told me that it was TT's plan to vote for a diplomatic victory, but I told him that unless all the other players who have been playing want to end the game, I'd have to vote against ending it.
I wouldn't prolong it if everyone is tired of it, but otherwise I won't hand it to him.
alexrdavies1: I was in a similar situation with Rego's diplomatic victory attempt.
I was really unsure about whether to go for it, but eventually just as I was about to reject it, TT posted that he was looking for a replacement.
I voted in favour of Rego's victory (which now isn't happening) with about 20 mins to go in the turn
But thankfully, TT has a replacement, and the diplomatic victory's been stopped as well.
For a happiness assessment...
Broker, Munro want to contine. Lin I assume so.
Rego will continue out of duty and was previously really commited, but these nukes have taken a lot out of his enjoyment level.
They've hit him with about 20.
me: I saw that Elkad has been nuked too.
alexrdavies1: Elkad as I mentioned earlier, wanted to go out with a bang and enjoy a modern war
But he got nuked by Broker, and I suspect that he will be the next person to be killed unless Broker decides he's not worth the trouble.
So he's now fed up too (something else I checked before voting for Rego).
I... well, I've just started, but the two recent diplomatic incidents have sapped my appetite a little.
I'm still here and still playing, though.
This bit is*strictly confidential:
with my army gone (and that was the only thing my civ had going for it), I'm currently a non-entity
The real reason I'm continuing the war instead of vassalising is that I understand Munro is really looking forward to the ground part of the campaign, and I don't want to spoil his fun - so I'm putting up the best fight that I can.
Again, I would appreciate it if you*do not tell him that.
me: I will not tell him any of this.
Not a single word.
alexrdavies1: OK, thanks.
I... tend to assume that most of what people say to me is mine to share unless explicitly agreed otherwise.
But if you wish to do things differently, I'd happily agree to treat all conversations with you as confidential unless agreed otherwise.
Your choice, as long as we're both on the same page.
me: You may say what I tell you to others, as it suits your aims, although I'd prefer you not talk to my allies about my concerns about them.
alexrdavies1: OK, that's how I'll do it then.
Positive things you say are fair game, negative or vs allies things you say are confidential.
me: Alright.
I think I trust my enemies more than my allies in this game.
alexrdavies1: I think that's because you've got the wrong allies. But then, I would think that
As I said to Twinkletoes, if circumstances change then I'd love to work with you.
me: As I see it, rego still has a pretty decent army and is large, although is covered in orange smoke.
alexrdavies1: Yes, but if he attacks out then it will get nuked.
me: Broker wants to win by culture or diplo while munro does the fighting.
alexrdavies1: Agreed.
me: munro just wants to fight.
alexrdavies1: I think Broker will push for a complete nuke ban
Wait I didn't mean that
Nuke building ban
me: and lin will try to eke out a space victory or at least be on the winning team.
not sure that sunrise is thinking anything except trying to help his team. And as you said elkad just wants to fight to the last.
In my position I cannot in good conscience let Broker walk away with it.
alexrdavies1: Have you made plans, yet?
me: But at the moment I cannot go against them. They will nuke me to hell.
alexrdavies1: If I were you I would sit tight and maintain the relative neutrality TT has built up, while building your army as quickly as possible.
Then when nukes are banned and you're strong, you'll need to go to war to stop them.
With 3-to-1 researching, the rest of the world being nuked, and the Internet, you won't win peacefully.
Just be warned that what you just said is basically what I was thinking when I signed up to fight me/TT/Rego/Elkad/sunrise against them.
It hasn't turned out well.
me: And I am very aware that it may not turn out well for me if I go against them, but at some point I will have to and it would be worse in my mind to not even try.
alexrdavies1: Okay. Well if I'm still alive, I daresay I'll give what help I can.
me: For now I will try to help them as little as possible.
alexrdavies1: Thank you.
I will do my best to hold out.
me: Good.
I still have to speak with a lot of teams.
alexrdavies1: Be aware as you negotiate that at least before you signed up, they weren't really expecting any military aid from TT
So don't raise their expectations.
You'll need all your powder dry for... whatever.
me: Yes, they have tried to get me to raise up military forces, but TT told me this wasn't expected.
so I knew to tell them it'd take time.
and act weak.
alexrdavies1: Anyway, I've taken up a lot of your time. I think you know where I stand.
me: Yes, and I appreciate you talking honestly with me.
alexrdavies1: That's okay. It's my style. I won't necessarily always be on your side, but I'll always talk straight.
Besides, my friendly smile is all I have going for me by now!
me:
alexrdavies1: e-mail or chat if you need me anytime.
me: Sure.
Thanks.
alexrdavies1: Np. Bye

That's a lot to read through so I suggest just hitting the highlights. Alex seemed very willing to talk so I let him. I wanted to hear his story and his opinion of my allies and my opponents. I kept trying to keep him talking. I found I liked his style, though my fortunes and his may not mesh this time.

Elkad's situation
He told me Elkad's view of the situation, which is helpful. Elkad just wants to fight to the last. He might be the perfect weapon to use to strike Broker if I can convince them not to destroy him.

Alex's situation
Alex considers our deal about not attacking us void, as we couldn't stop Munro from nuking him. As I hear it not much could have stopped munro from attacking a huge stack right on his borders when he had the chance. But he doesn't seem to have hard feelings against us, which is good.

I told Alex I'm sorry trying to smooth things. Even though it's a hollow statement it couldn't hurt relations.

I proceeded to point out that it would be in my best interest if Munro did not succeed in taking his lands and got him to say he didn't have any intention to attack me. I also tried to judge the state of our relationship by saying I'd understand if he didn't want to enter into any future treaties, and he reassured me that his relations with TT were good even after the loss of his stack, so no worries there. Good job TT.

My allies
He mentioned he could rant about my Broker, but wouldn't because he was my ally. I, however, was very interested to hear what he had to say about my allies and got him to give his opinion of each. All of this was free and easy information. It doesn't matter if it was an accurate or fair assessment of my allies. It was most likely what the other team thought of them and that has very real implications in the game.

Alex gave me some secret info which I assured him I would not tell my allies. I will certainly not tell Munro that Alex is weak at the moment. I'd rather munro didn't waltz through there quickly. I'll see what I can say to Munro about his upcoming battle. The fact that he was willing to confide in my team, says a lot. He just gave someone on the other team information that he'd rather other members not have. I guess I did a good job convincing him I meant him no harm.

I also threw in a sentence about how he could use my words as he saw fit so long as he didn't tell my allies. This accomplishes two things. First my allies don't hear all this talk about doubting the alliance, which I doubt Alex would have told them anyway. But more importantly it means that his allies will hear of my ambivalence about what to do. I will also drop some hints about this in my email to rego. This hope to win me over will almost certainly guarantee that I am not the target of their nukes. It also keeps my options open and strengthens the neutral position that my predecessors have built up.

I also threw in a sentence about trusting my enemies more than my friends. While I do trust Broker and company not to backstab me, it is a huge flag for the other team to consider working with me. I do actually trust my enemies. I find it very unlikely that they will be a threat to me. As I see it Broker is not a threat to my security, although he is a threat to win.

My situation
The last bit of important information was Alex's opinion of what I should do to have the best chance of winning.

If I were you I would sit tight and maintain the relative neutrality TT has built up, while building your army as quickly as possible.
Then when nukes are banned and you're strong, you'll need to go to war to stop them.
With 3-to-1 researching, the rest of the world being nuked, and the Internet, you won't win peacefully.

This is an interesting thought, though I see some problems with it. One problem is hard feelings. I know this is a game, but they might see this as a huge backstab and my diplomacy with any of them may be forever made more difficult in future games. This is definitely something to think about. If this game were only played once, it would always be correct to backstab. Although I may be forgiven for this as I am a new player. The other flaw I see is that I am not sure that those three would stop trading with me once the other threats were eliminated. It would make sense to stop trading with me if there were no repercussions, but suppose I had an army by that time, they might rather just trade me the tech than go to war. There is also the aspect of team spirit to be considered. Some of them might honestly feel they have won already when we get down to four and not care which one of us actually wins.

Thinking this all through makes it easier to see my options.

As I see it if Broker is not weakened somehow he will win a cultural victory, beating me to space. If he is weakened or slowed or has a cultural city nuked I might beat him with a space race. Those are the two options. I guess domination might be possible but that would maybe take even longer than space.

My best chances come from the other team having more fight in them than is expected and making an unexpected attack on Broker to hurt his chances to win. Ideally I would not have to help them and incur the wrath of my teammates. I must not be seen as a liability to Broker and Co. at least until I can protect myself.

I should at some point build an army that has at least the potential to hurt people. This gives me more leverage. Again ideally they would not need to be used.

There is still much to think about and much more diplomacy to deal with.

-SC

[SilentConfusion]

Just want to say sorry to the lurkers for my long posts. You may have gotten more than you bargained for.

But to keep you interested here are some cool pictures from the empire.

Here's the agreement that Broker made. This is in case he backs out on the deal.




Here's my opponent's civics.




Here's our troop count.




Here's the recent power graph.




Here is the sum total of my cities.




Here's the relations screen. Lots of red.




Here's the current tech situation:




And here's the tech tree.



Sorry for the differing picture sizes. I'll work on that.

[SilentConfusion]

I got this message from Munro:

Hi Silent,

Welcome to the game! Thanks so much for agreeing to help out. It can be so tough to find replacements this late in the game, especially on such a large map and with such a large civ to manage, so that is much appreciated.

It's great to hear you're planning to maintain TT's current diplomatic relations as well. I'm not sure how much anyone else has filled you in yet on the current diplo situation, but from my perspective here is a very brief overview of where we're at:

-The four of us (you, me, Broker, Dreylin) are allied, sharing techs freely and defending each other militarily.

-Alex, Elkad, Rego and Sunrise are likewise allied and doing the same (although Sunrise and Dreylin are on very friendly terms and have some additional special NAP deals which means that Sunrise isn't supporting Rego militarily).

We have wars on most fronts:
-Alex is at war with you and me; however, most of Alex's army was gifted to him by TT and because of this he made a commitment to TT very early on that he wouldn't use it against TT. So far he has not actually attacked any of your units or cities directly (as far as I know). Although since the gifted army has now been nuked into oblivion by me (with TT's co-operation) he may not feel bound by this agreement any longer, especially if I launch a counter-attack and he starts to feel directly threatened. So we probably need to be careful there. (You may want to build some bomb shelters ASAP too since Rego / Elkad are unlikely to feel bound by any such understanding and right now you have a lot of very soft targets)!

-Elkad is at war with Broker and Dreylin. Initially Elkad was on the offensive but was beaten back by Dreylin and Broker, and they now have a chance to take some of his cities. Athough this will certainly be a tricky operation with tactical nukes in play...

-I'm at war with Elkad and Rego just to provide ICBM support to Dreylin / Broker and to try to slow down Rego's research (he just finished Rocketry this turn, and Fission the tech before that).

In terms of end game objectives:
-I'm looking forwards to some modern warfare; against Alex initially and then Rego if we are successful in taking out Alex (or if Alex agrees to peace before then).

-Broker is going to help us finish all the military techs, then will probably switch into culture / military mode, to help out with the wars and go for a culture win.

-You and Dreylin both have a shot at a space victory I imagine, especially if you continue co-operating on techs after Broker switches into culture mode. Or you could join me on my military crusade... (or maybe even culture yourself).

-I think TT was leaning towards a space win but it's probably up to you how you want to play out the end game. In any case, we need to focus on neutralizing the Rego / Alex / Elkad military threat first; I suspect they are probably just focused on just taking us out now, since they probably now have slim chance of actually getting a win.

-So what are your thoughts? As long as Alex doesn't attack you directly, you can probably stay out of the war and focus on keeping our research rates up, and / or building infra for a possible space win. Or you could jump into the war proper, and help me beat back Alex a bit. Or something else?

Meanwhile, I'd definitely recommend taking some ICBM pre-cautions. Build bomb shelters everywhere and split up any large stacks or worker clumps (TT had about 10 or more in a single 3x3 last turn; worth moving those if you haven't already; also, all the ones named "Roman x" were on loan to help with the fallout cleanup frm nuking Alex in your lands, so when you get a chance to return some of those it'd be appreciated; try to spread them out on different tiles when you do...)

Anyway, welcome again to the game! I've CC'd the others above as well so that you have everyone's email addresses too. We use email a lot for team discussions and also gmail chat quite a bit too.

Cheers,
Munro

He urges me to build bomb-shelters, but I think with correct diplomacy they won't be necessary at least for a while.

A pretty detailed summary of the situation.

He also wants to know my plans.

I wrote back the following:

Munro...

Thanks for the recap of where everything stands. It's hard to get caught up with all that is going on in these games.

I noticed some of my empty cities being protected by your troops. I am very appreciative of that. It seems after the loss of my army, I was left with very little left, barely enough to garrison my cities.

I also notice that worker clump and dispersed them. I did not notice that some of those workers were yours. The fallout is completely scrubbed and they could be gifted back. I can do that next turn if they are within range of your borders. I will do as you suggest and gift them back to you in a dispersed pattern.

Alex has not attacked any of my troops or cities and I think that he feels a little bit upset about the loss of his army, and holds my civ partly responsible. I think that he will consider our agreements void.

I agree that having many bomb shelters would be wise in this turbulent time. Also at least some form of defensive force needs to be mustered. You shouldn't have to be defending my cities.

I am undecided about my end game strategy. I will probably just go with what TT was planning, but I have to repair my garrisons first. I am also planning on teching Ad Flight to help out the war effort.

My first task is to build some garrison and maybe some bomb shelters. Then we'll see from there.

Thanks again for the rundown.

SilentConfusion

I tell him I'm unsure at this moment, which is true. But I also tell him that I have to work on garrisons and bomb-shelters, which is only partly true as I will not be spending hammers on bomb shelters.

I wanted to reassure him that I'm on his side by bringing up the Ad Flight tech. I will tech this tech and use it as credit.

I tell him I'll give back his workers which were loaned to clean fallout.

All in all a very good exchange.

-SilentConfusion

[SilentConfusion]

Now for the really interesting stuff.

I send this message to regoarrarr:

regoarrarr...

This is mostly an introduction. I have taken over for TT and am now commanding the Malinese civilization.

I am not aware of the complete diplomatic situation, but it is very possible that you do not like my civ very much. I want to just say first that I respect you as a player, and that regardless of what happens between our civs I just want to say that it will done with the utmost respect for you on my end.

The other reason for this communication is that I wanted to gauge your level of interest in the game. There is talk of an impending diplomatic victory. TT had considered voting to end the game diplomatically. I however, cannot do that on principle unless the other players (who have played much longer than I have) want it to end. If you are no longer having fun and wish to end the game and move on I would understand. If the general consensus is that the game has gone on long enough, I will honor that and place my vote. Unless that is the case however the game will not end with me handing a victory to someone else.

I am starting to get a better understanding of the diplomatic equation. It seems like there have been two teams and that my civilization has often tried to remain out of the fray sometimes switching sides if necessary. There will come a time when we have to make a stand one way or the other if we want to win. You can be guaranteed that we will not just keel over and let someone else win without trying, unless (as I said before) the rest of the players are tired of it.

May the nuclear clouds over your cities dissipate quickly.

SilentConfusion

I sent a similar, although more bare-bones version of this to the Elkad and sunrise089. The real power on the team is rego and it was there I wanted to plant the seeds.

I wanted to get confirmation that his wrath was not directed at me but at my allies.

The key part is the bolded paragraph. It suggests that my civ is still in the middle, not decided as to which side I'm on. It hints that I might be willing to work with his side to give me a chance to win. While this is true and I will seriously consider doing something to help them, the main thing it does is practically guarantee that I am not the target of any nukes his team has. Not that I would have been necessarily before, but it's good to know for sure. He will not want to nuke his best chance at winning. His best chance at winning is if I turned on my allies. I am very hesitant to do this, but the thought of it will at least keep me safe from my enemies.

And he responded with:

Hi Silent Confusion!

Thanks for taking this over. It does kind of seem that this game will never end, though I have to say I almost got it to end last turn :-D

I don't dislike you or your civ. I never really dealt a whole lot with Mali - you and Persia were pretty much tied together and since Persia was my immediate neighbor, I usually dealt with him and he would deal with Mali. Of course, that was 1 Persia and *2* Malis ago, so.... ya know :-)

I enjoyed working with TT (and not just because he's probably going to end up reading this note!!). As you are probably aware, about 10 or so turns ago, he and I (and Alex and sunrise and Elkad) had agreed to flip things up on the Broker led "axis of evil". The key thing was Mali, who was going to deny Rocketry to them and aid Alex, Elkad and I in a military campaign.

But then he reconsidered again, and now the world is (on its way to being) a nuclear wasteland. While it was disappointing and frustrating to me, I dont' really blame him or hold it against him. He got himself into a situation where he had promised 2 opposing things to 2 different sides. No matter what he was going to disappoint someone.

I'm not sure what your plans are now. I can understand the need to get your bearings in a game (both in-game and diplomatically), and I understand that you might not want to just come in and completely change the course of your civ. On the other hand, at some point you do need to "make a stand" as you put it and put your own stamp on the Malinese civ.

Where we stand now, Broker or Munro is going to win. I'm not sure what kind of outstanding deals you have with either of them, but I would urge you to not make any new ones. For instance, I believe you just traded him Satellites for Robotics or something like that? I'm not sure what you're researching now, but if you want to make any tech trades, I'm up for it!

You can reach me on Google Chat at this address, or AIM at superdoubledan or Yahoo IM at fonnny

dan.
regoarrarr
India

This was a very interesting letter indeed.

It confirmed several things:
-He did not have anything against me
-He will not nuke me
-He is willing to work with me

I would say that this diplomacy has been a success. It puts me in a position to keep communications open and remain on good terms with my enemies. It opens the door for possibly helping the other team at some point, though of course this will have to be carefully considered. The important thing is that the options are open.

Our civ is in the unique position of almost being friends with our enemies. This could turn out to be extremely important. We're the only team who doesn't have any enemies.

I didn't mention the fact that he had just teched the techs he needed for nukes.

-SilentConfusion

[Sullla]

I really appreciate the updates, especially the inclusion of some pictures. regoarrarr is the only one who has posted with any regularity in this game over the past couple months, and it's helpful to get some alternate perspectives on how things are proceeding.

[SilentConfusion]

I really appreciate the updates, especially the inclusion of some pictures. regoarrarr is the only one who has posted with any regularity in this game over the past couple months, and it's helpful to get some alternate perspectives on how things are proceeding.

The appreciation is noted and I'll continue with the pictures. I saw the post count in his thread is very high as usual. There is no way I can rival that, but we're only 6 behind Munro and 78 behind Alex. I will do my best to keep posting regularly for the rest of the game.

[SilentConfusion]

Email from Munro:

Sorry, ignore previous email, sent before complete.
-


Thanks. I'll send you the gold next time I log back in so you can finish it a turn earlier and share it around.

BTW, the only official deal I have in place with you/TT is a rolling NAP with 10 turn cooloff period - are you happy to keep that in place? Are you going to be sticking with the alliance for the rest of the game or are you still figuring out your plans? We've never formally defined things, but basically it has meant full tech sharing within the alliance, no tech sharing outside the alliance, NAP, OB, mutual military assistance when needed etc. Is that your understanding / expectation too?

Cheers
Munro

Here's the thing about being new: I don't know if I have that deal with him or not. He could just be telling me that, but it is quite possible that I have that deal. If I do I should accept it, although it puts quite a kabosh on helping the other team. If TT is here, I'd appreciate confirmation of this. I am not in a position to be able to deny such a request, and such a deal would pretty well tie my hands. I had thought about doing some tech trading with the other team. As the language is written it doesn't explicitly say can't give troops to the other team, although I must help Munro if possible. I might agree to that wording specifically to have troop gifting not defined, however this is somewhat suspect as even if troop gifting is not against the letter of the law, it is against the spirit of the law. How topsy turvy do I play this? How nitpicky/backstabbing will I be? I have pretty much decided not to build troops and attack my team even if I can't stop Broker from winning. This would seem too backstabby and I'd forever earn those guys mistrust in any game I played with them. I am not against providing information and small help to the other team, but I will not turn my military force against them, unless they do something that could be used as an excuse, like not trading techs with me. It is smart of Munro to get this agreement to me. It makes me make a decision, something I did not want to have to do.

My current plan is to continue my role as friend to everyone, offering slight help to both sides, while attempting a space ship victory. I have started building the Apollo program and the Space Elevator. I might consider stopping the Apollo program with 1 turn to completion if I think that will provoke people into taking drastic measures. In the meantime I will amp up my best production cities.

I tech Ad Flight next turn which will give me an increase in soldier points. I think I am going to take this opportunity to gift some troops to Alex to hopefully give him a better chance to defend his land. The decrease in soldier points from gifting will be masked by the increase of the tech points. Whipping also muddies this a bit, so hopefully it will not be clear that I am helping Alex. His capitol and one other coastal city have fallen to Munro. I fear without help he will get too weak to hold up. Hopefully rego will also protect Alex, slowing down MUnro.

If we can get Munro to slowly pour all his energy into trying to take Alex, he will not be a contender to win. A slow campaign against Alex would also give rego and sunrise a chance to build up their forces. Hopefully diplomacy could help push them into attacking Broker and hurting his chances to win. Meanwhile I just have to out produce Dreylin for space.

[SilentConfusion]

Elkad defied the nuke ban, so it didn't pass, but now he's eliminated so I think it will just be until the next vote until it is passed.