[SPOILERS]- Crazy Keelyn is trippin’ Balz: Bobchillingworth of the Balseraphs

[Bobchillingworth]

As promised, a diplo update. These chats / emails occurred over the span of the last four days.

I'm going to break them up into multiple posts, easier to edit that way.


First, a chat with SL:

3:[COLOR="Sienna"]53 PM Square Leg: hey bob, fancy a random chat about pbem 5?
12 minutes[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:06 PM Bobchillingworth: heya
sure[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: cool
so the sidar founded fol[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: yeah
4:07 PM Iskender told me that he got a religous something or other from a lair[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: really - it coninsided with his score increasing by 22pts...
maybe another tec I guess[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:08 PM Bobchillingworth: idk. He told me that he's going for CoE
apparently you can wane gibbon, switch religion, and he can still cast spells as a shade
and won't leave
(he told me in the context of him not wanting me to race him to the tech)[/COLOR]
Square Leg: thats quite interesting - I suppose the same is true of hemmah?
Bobchillingworth: presumably, yeah
4:09 PM Square Leg: hmm - that sounds quite broken - I guess he will lose the hero promo and not get anymore xp though?
4:11 PM Bobchillingworth: Not sure.
Square Leg: ok - did you notice Serdoa gain 2 new cities?
Bobchillingworth: yeah
Square Leg: I had to gift him one
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: right
figured[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: part of our peace deal
4:12 PM PZ Noob if he doesn't change the name lol
The other one is a marginal site in his back lines - not in your direction
tbh - it is a bit shit[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:13 PM Bobchillingworth: hah. Well, I'm not too worred about him yet, anyway :P
the Combat V Spell Extension Son of the Inferno about to eliminate Sareln is a little bit more concerning :P[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]4:14 PM Square Leg: urgh
so it has started?
just 1 so far?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"] Bobchillingworth: yeah
he has more than one?[/COLOR]
Square Leg: yep
Bobchillingworth: how are you sure?
[COLOR="Sienna"]4:15 PM Square Leg: not 100% but from a chat with him it was kind of implied...
4:16 PM Also - they are only 6k in power
He will have deleted any warriors or extra units to keep his gnp up to research sailing
and get the SOI to the mainland
i guess he has 3[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:17 PM Bobchillingworth: well, game over then.
I can't stop that
oh and Iskender apparently has a long NAP with him
they're probably allies or something[/COLOR]
4:18 PM Square Leg: none of us can - serdoa has the best chance with PZ's
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: sigh. Including Acheron was a mistake. I thought that patch N was supposed to fix the Sons so that you couldn't grab them, but apparently not
or maybe O reverted it for some stupid reason[/COLOR]
Square Leg: they gave them the loyalty promo which only stops domination shenanigans
4:19 PM Bobchillingworth: grrr
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: I know
When is your nap with the clan to?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: I can't say
4:20 PM last time I tried to organize something against the Clan it all blew up in my face anyway
someone leaked
wasn't sareln
probably wasn't you
serdoa didn't know
so, it was probably the sneaky guy with the long Clan NAP
so any dogpile you might be thinking of probably isn't going to work.[/COLOR]
4:22 PM Square Leg: Well - the only way I could have seen killing the sons would have been Sareln to cast his WS and then everyone to smack them with anything and everything. If that isn't going to happen...
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:23 PM Bobchillingworth: To put it this way- if sareln were to cast his worldspell now, I could not interene without breaking me NAP until the spell was over (or close to it- not sure how long it lasts on quick)
and if Iskender isn't on board, and I really doubt that he will be, forget it.[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]4:24 PM Square Leg: I bet Tredje has staggered his naps.
4:25 PM I have one with him too - I wonder if I am next on the list or you?[/COLOR]
Bobchillingworth: when does yours end?
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: I can't remember if I can say.... just a sec.
5 minutes
4:31 PM Square Leg: it is till T140[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"] Bobchillingworth: lol
yup
staggered NAPs
Me -> you -> Iskender (serdoa?) [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]4:32 PM Square Leg: lol
ok - need to think of a counter quick![/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: haha.
4:33 PM He has two goblin archers too, to cover them, and can easily outproduce any one civ
if he's going for conquest, econ doesn't even matter
I think this is probably GG.
4:34 PM I can't even go with my Ultimate Defense Plan and stock my very nicely-positoned makes full of cultists, because Empower V fireballs will eat them[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"] Square Leg: one option would be horse archers or horsemen swooping in - enough of them....
4:35 PM they have the advantage of coming from the fog and they get a bonus vs archer....[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: ughh... maybe
but I'd need so many of them
4:36 PM I don't have HBR or archery either
to say nothing of stirrups[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]4:37 PM Square Leg: I don't know what else unless he makes a mistake.
you can't get to deception before he comes knocking can you?[/COLOR]
Bobchillingworth: probably not with Iskender racing me
4:38 PM Square Leg: puppets plus summons could work
Bobchillingworth: if he has been beelining the tech, he'll get there first
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: OO and fanaticism is a big ask too..
fo hemah[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:39 PM Bobchillingworth: actually it's OO and one of the expensive arcane techs
fanatacism is Stygian[/COLOR]
Square Leg: ah - whoops
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: which do get minor fire resistance, actually
but they're far away for me[/COLOR]
4:40 PM Square Leg: hereis what makes me think he has more than 1:
[COLOR="Sienna"] me: So I am just going to come out with it:
How are the Sons?
Tredje: What Sons? innocent face[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]me: heh
11:08 I dind't think that you only got a couple of gobbo archers from your world spell
not after I did a WB test anyway
11:10 Tredje: Maybe we got lots of Archers?
11:12 me: maybe - but I ain't buying it - why else would you esearch what you have?
11:13 I just hope you don't come my way - I've had enough of war!
he says: what sons[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: yeah, maybe.
4:41 PM Well. There's always plan "H"[/COLOR]
Square Leg: ha ha - whats that?
4:42 PM Bobchillingworth: *H*yborem :D
Square Leg: Atually - he could snuff a son or two...
B[COLOR="Yellow"]obchillingworth: Yeah- devils get minor fire resistance
and he has high strength
and I'll just pump entropy adepts on the way to him
4:43 PM so when the Balz AI dies, I get manes
ugh. I'll feel sad to abandon my civ, though. I'm actaully winning
:P
4:44 PM if it weren't for the stupid Sons I'd be tops in everything by a good margin[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: yeah - I feel pretty shitty about it all too since I feel like I can actually come back from this position and maybe even do something this game...
Its a lot of effort to get rolled by a glitch[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:45 PM Bobchillingworth: Yeah. Well, that's the nature of the game, I guess
lots of game-enders[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: yeah - it is broken in lots of ways!
4:46 PM I wonder if I can persuade Serdoa to go raze some of the clan homeland - would you pay serdoa to do that some way?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:47 PM Bobchillingworth: Sure, if the price was within reason
Idk if he'll be willing tho[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: the price being no more Sons of the Inferno screwing the game up
maybe I'll approach him about that and see what we can come up with[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:48 PM Bobchillingworth: orcs resist fire tho, too
he'll need a lot of pz[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: He is pretty dejected with the game I hink so many a bit of freelance fun would be of interest to him
yeah but the sons are 5 + 3 fire
4:49 PM he resists that[/COLOR]
Bobchillingworth: Yeah, the issue is that he'll need tons of pz to raze a city if tredje is spamming 2X warriors a turn in there
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: also - clan have no sons if they have no cities
and it keeps them occupied while we think of a better counter! [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:50 PM Bobchillingworth: Contact iskender too, see what his deal is.
if Tredje is giving him a lot of promises of cooperation and then goes off and murders everyone else, Iskender is just being played as a fool yet again
kind of like Selrahc from pbem 1- "I won't hurt you, if you enable me to run off and win the game"
4:51 PM I'd see what his deal is myself, but I think that he doesn't like me for some reason [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: lol
4:52 PM I dunno about that but I'll contact him and see what he says
4:53 PM I am going to guess that your nap is till T120
Ikender probably T180[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:54 PM Bobchillingworth: that sounds approx. right
just enough time between each to cripple or kill the target[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: yeah
4:55 PM Actually - if Iskender does get deception and Shadow III he could attack the clan and they wouldn't know about it![/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: hah. I think it would be obvious who was doing it :P
I'd be better off with deception, anyway.
best thing is if Iskender leave it to me
4:56 PM I could make like four Air Elementals a turn[/COLOR]
Square Leg: That spit into lightning
Bobchillingworth: good strength, up to four moves
Square Leg: split
Bobchillingworth: flying
Square Leg: fly too - line of sight
4:57 PM Bobchillingworth: Iskender can't get nearly as much use out of Gibbon. But he's likely to beat me there
Square Leg: when can you get there by?
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: and I need to know soon if I should try for deception or initiate Plan H
can't do both[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: sure
different directions[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]4:58 PM Bobchillingworth: How fast I can get there depends a lot on whether Sareln uses his worldspell, and if I use mine
I've got 3 inspirations going at once right now
losing those will suck[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]4:59 PM Square Leg: ok so this needs to be a world effort
else the clan will win[/COLOR]
Bobchillingworth: yeah. And we know how well those turn out :D
[COLOR="Sienna"]Square Leg: yup
everyone is in it for themself really![/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]5:01 PM Bobchillingworth: yeah. Well, there's different ways that cooperation could play out. I could do some damage with either Gibbon or Hyborem, Serdoa has PZ, Iskender... well, his NAP might make him useless, but he could try to box in the Clan I guess. You can send golems or whatever.
but it's herding cats[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]5:02 PM Square Leg: The more we talk about it the more 4 air elementals a turn is sounding like the solution - it also means you will will if you kill the sons - so catch 22 for the rest of us!
will win sorry[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]5:03 PM Bobchillingworth: haha. Well, that's just how it goes :P
unlike the Clan, I'm not necessarily looking to win by murdering everyone
5:04 PM so there's that :P
I'll sign an NAP with you for a very long time in the event that the Clan are defeated, if that helps.[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Sienna"]5:05 PM Square Leg: Well i want to win by destroying everyone so not really!
lol
5:06 PM I will talk to the others and see what happens - I am struggling to see what I can say to iskender to get gim to ditch deception[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]5:07 PM Bobchillingworth: Just find out what the score is, RE- his terms with the Clan. That will show if he's willing to do anything to stop them.
If he is, then possibilities can be discussed from there
5:08 PM Oh, and look, he's on now
but I've got to go, sadly
laundry to be moved, essays to write
ugh.
I'm still going to be online, but AFK[/COLOR]
Square Leg: ok - well have fun with your dirty sheets! cya

Summary:


* SL and I kvetched about how terrifying the Sons are and how it's such a shame they're in our game.

* SL wants to put together an alliance vs. Tredje, but I think that it's not practical.

* Tredje has staggered NAPs with all of his neighbours except Sareln. His NAP with Iskender ends before the one with SL does- I didn't know that when had this chat though.

* I admitted that I might end up going for Infernal Pact- the point of leaking that info was to lessen the chance that SL might be tempted to make a run at it (or Iskender if SL leaks the info). And because it really wasn't worth being coy about. No specifics of any plan were mentioned.

* Told SL that Iskender is trying to race me to Deception. I asked him to talk to Iskender about maybe letting me have it; although in reality I've decided to look at other alternatives, it doesn't hurt to spread some ambiguity about my true goals and perhaps give SL and Iskender something to argue about. Plus it'll make Iskender even more convinced that he needs to research deception ASAP.

[Bobchillingworth]

Sneaky fellow that I occasionally am, that conversation with SL led immediatly to this chat about three minutes later-

[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: why hello there
do you have a minute[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Tredje: Hi!
As a matter of cat I do
*ehm fact[/COLOR]
5:16 PM Bobchillingworth: :D
Tredje: Funny mistype
[COLOR="Yellow"]Bobchillingworth: So! Hey, let's extend our NAP
sure seems mutually beneficial and all. And it ends in, what, 20 turns?[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]5:18 PM Tredje: Yes, the one we have goes until T110 if i recall correctly.
I'm actually going to have to think about extending our NAP.[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]5:19 PM Bobchillingworth: Mmm, I bet
Cause' you've got them staggered with all of your neighbors who you aren't in the process of murdering
and you have those nice Son(s) of the Inferno
5:20 PM I can see the writing on the wall.[/COLOR]
Tredje: You know me well it seems.
5:21 PM Bobchillingworth: It's just good play. So I guess the question is then, is it Final War time, or is there any way for us to cooperate?
5:25 PM Tredje: You definitely make it sound very black/white. I'm not sure us not having a NAP necessitates war.
[COLOR="Yellow"]5:29 PM Bobchillingworth: ah, well. Forgive me, but I do find it a little bit difficult to believe that you'll be content to sit out your laurels for long
5:30 PM Economically, you're at a severe disadvantage.
And your super weapon won't be so super soon enough.
5:34 PM I'd be willing, happy even to work closely with you, collaborate in some mutually beneficial relationship through mana lending, religion spreads, whatever. But otherwise, I'm the next one up on the block, with your current NAPs
5:35 PM and I have no intention of rolling over. So, if we don't extend our NAP and come to some understand, I'm going to operate under the assumption that we're headed for a bloodbath.[/COLOR]
8 minutes
5:44 PM Tredje: Message received. I will still have to consider your offer before giving you a reply. I am not sure I see things as black/white as you do, and that not signing a NAP equals an imminent bloodbath. Please remember that you are leading GNP by a fair margin, and my hesitance could have something to do with forcing you to play "honest," as I think Serdoa once put it.
5:47 PM Bobchillingworth: Certainly. My GNP contains a lot of culture, but I understand your point regardless. But for the same reason, I'm going to be on edge. Trying to keep someone "honest" hardly works if you aren't prepared to capitalize on your latent & implied threat, of course. So take your time in reaching a decision if you need to, but don't be surprised if I build a lot of military in the meantime
6 minutes
5:54 PM Tredje: Hehe, I understand that you want to take precautions. Just make sure not to bankrupt yourself. That can be very painful.

Summary:


When I think I'm about to end up fighting someone I always seem to adopt this tone of insouciant impertinence. Seems to generally serve me well enough =)


I laid it out on the metaphorical line with Tredje. I could have thought out some of my remarks a bit better. For instance, I appear to have been making arguments for why he should kill me. And at the end by threatening to produce a lot of units I sort of proved his exact point about why keeping me "honest" would be a good idea. Oh well :P Surely I didn't say anything which hadn't already occurred to him.


Charmingly, our relatively brief conversation (presumably) immediately sparked a series of about a half-dozen back-and-forth posts between Mardoc and Tredje.

[Bobchillingworth]

Two chats with Sareln (one day / turn passed between them):

9:24 PM Sareln: you weren't planning on casting any spells in the near future were you? My apologies in advance if you were.
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: oh, damn you.
That actaully hurts my econ quite a lot.
well, you have to do what you have to.[/COLOR]
Sareln: I'm dead otherwise, so yeah...
[COLOR="Yellow"]9:25 PM me: well, you're probably still dead.
lots of diplo has happened today
learned some interesting stuff
Tredje has very cleverly staggered his NAPs
to both prevent a dogpile against him, and to give him one target at a time to pick off
you -> me -> SL -> Iskender / Serdoa
9:26 PM SL and were talking about ways to counter the Sons of the Inferno, but there's not a lot of options
9:27 PM the best would be if I could get Gibbon, but Iskender (who may be working with the Clan based on them apparently having a long NAP and him having tipped them off in the past about my "box in" plot) is beelining him
9:28 PM The big issue is if they have more than one SotI[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]9:29 PM Sareln: ah
he only brought 1 in range of my floating eyes
but that was just the first scan [/COLOR]
me: plus he might have only one galley
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: I should have a pretty good idea of what he's got in his territory quickly enough.
he better have one galley![/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: galley's can only care one unit at a time
9:30 PM so he could have more sitting aroun[/COLOR]d
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: if he doesn't have one galley that means a continental based Acheron no?
[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]me: right, I mean he might only have a single galley
which means that the other Sons are just sitting in Acheron Land
waiting to be picked up[/COLOR]
Sareln: ah
[COLOR="Yellow"]9:31 PM me: if he really only has one and you somehow manage to kill it, you'll be a hero
do you even have a plan?[/COLOR]
9:33 PM Sareln: Arcana Lacuna, bronze hasted warriors...
me: you'll have enough to chew through everything?
Sareln: a lot of bronze hasted warriors...
me: lol
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: but srsly Str. 8 C5 Archmagi...
wth... :P[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: yeah we screwed up
can't really blame uberfish
9:34 PM but this never should have happened
I honestly thought that patch N blocked the worldspell from getting them :|[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"] Sareln: same
but alas it doesn't
I know why too
if it's any consolation... :P
code wise[/COLOR]
me: heh
9:35 PM Sareln: World spell rolls for each unit that's an orc. The barbarian player has racial type orc. So when it creates disciples and sons, since they are untyped, they gain the "orc" promotion and get hit by Call of the Horde.
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: lesson learned, but it sucks to have invested so much time in a game that's possibly doomed over this
9:36 PM can't ask Tredje to do anything about it, though. Totally unfair, and he's obviously based a very clever game around it[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: heck yes
we'll see what I can do I suppose
not particularly hopeful
that archmage fights at Str. 16! :P[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: sheesh.
9:37 PM actually higher if he's fortified on defensive land :P[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: well yes
probably closer to 20 to be honest
9:38 PM if he does the "right" thing and fortifies with his goblins and warriors on a forest and stays put to build up the modifier[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: at that point you might just be feeding him exp
but if you can tie him up long enough, I might be able to intervene when my NAP with him expires
although that isn't for a little while yet[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]9:39 PM Sareln: well, what's the effective difference between an archmage w/ C5 and one spell that he always casts
and an archmage w/ C5 and a bunch of spells, which he only casts one of?
:P[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]9:40 PM me: heh
it's still bad if he gets drill & stuff :P[/COLOR]
Sareln: I suppose
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: or march
yikes
or vitalize[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]9:41 PM Sareln: I'll need ~20 warriors btw.
it's possible if Tredje doesn't run the numbers himself.
[/COLOR]
me: how long does your worldspell last?
Sareln: and now we know why I held onto this calculator
me: I might as well send Loki for a trip now
Sareln: 13 turns or so?
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: I'll go scout some clan
right now I expect to be attacked once the NAP runs out, or soon after
so no reason to worry about annyoing him[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]9:42 PM Sareln: Iskender and I cut a deal for enchantment mana once long ago
I wonder if he's still going to hold to that deal (he claims that he will)
that would help me enourmously[/COLOR]
9:43 PM me: too bad you didn't get to kill orthus, heh :P
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: would you like to stick the axe on Loki and walk it over?
I promise I'll give it back...
:P[/COLOR]
me: I would rather not have loki die yet :P
[COLOR="Magenta"]9:44 PM Sareln: fair enough, thought I'd ask...
how about a scout?[/COLOR]
me: no OB... not sure I can make it over
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: ah
btw
9:45 PM 8 copper warriors have good odds (90+%) to mob a son of the inferno defending at Str. 8 w/ 150% modifier.
(w/ the C1 from apprenticeship)[/COLOR]
me: this assumes he stays still, of course
[COLOR="Magenta"]9:46 PM Sareln: yeah
depends upon how lucky he's feeling I suppose
either that or he runs his guy away[/COLOR]
me: although if he goes elsewhere I guess you could just send warriors into his core
Sareln: tempting that

1:59 AM
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: 2 sons of the inferno...
[/COLOR]
me: sigh
2:00 AM
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: promoted in the same way each, C5, Spell Extension.

though you'd like to know :P[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: yeah

it's just depressing :P[/COLOR]
2:02 AM
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: hah

well, with two summoning fire elementals, I don't expect folks to last that long

hardly something drawn out...[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: ughh... well, I'll have like eight cities
2:03 AM
and quite a few units
[/COLOR]
Sareln: that'll help

me: sucks to be bled out over the course of a month

[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: heh

well, he can only have them in two places at once

just bum rush? :P[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: gonna miss my poor balseraph empire

maybe, but he'll have them covered

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if an opportunistic serdoa jumped in
2:04 AM
I think I might just turn everything over to the AI again :P

maybe Hyborem can share an island with Acheron
[/COLOR]
Sareln: lol
2:05 AM
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: actually yeah, I really might

I can get the Pact done before I could die[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: heh

it can turn into a meme[/COLOR]

me: thanks to still having a little while on my NAP and the worldspell

Sareln: when trying to kill bob, expect him to summon Hyborem...

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: haha
2:06 AM
in my thread I call it the Hyborem Or Perish Endeavor
2:07 AM
I think "Hyborem Evacuation Manuever Proceedure" might be even better [/COLOR]

Sareln: don't forget to include the :weed: smiley
2:08 AM
me:

[COLOR="Yellow"]yeah, what the heck. I'm really gonna do it

if nothing else, I can just leave it with one turn left in the Pact

if he isn't actaully killing me

uh, don't tell anyone else
2:09 AM
Iskender is enough of a punk that I bet he'd try to get there first just to spite me :D
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: haha

Sidar/Clan NAP expires on T130 iirc
2:10 AM
let me go check

also you should make a note that Iskender leaks like a sieve...[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: yeah

he's the one who leaked the box-the-clan-in plan

I've known for a long time now[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: yeah, T130
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: I had planned to pay him back in a nasty way eventually, dunno if I'll get the chance now
2:11 AM [/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: heh

whatevs

just something to be aware of.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: it's cool, I don't tell him anyting anyway

SL's is until 140 I believe

mine is earlier than both[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: ah
2:12 AM
so that's the kill order probably...[/COLOR]

me: yeah

[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: I'm going to see if I can't kill at least one son

depends if he does the smart thing or gets greedy I suppose...

he pulled back btw, which makes sense.[/COLOR]
2:13 AM
me: not to give you false hope, but if you can just hold out for a really long time without even necessarily killing them then I could possible jump in when my NAP ends
2:14 AM
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: haha

this'll all be decided very close to the ending of the world-spell in all liklihood[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: I guess. Well, you'll have a lot of warriors to kill at least, maybe :P

to be killed, rather
2:15 AM
heh[/COLOR]

Sareln: hehe
2:19 AM
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: too bad the Clan has boats

I'd gift you a city on an island just for fun
[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: haaah

again? :P[/COLOR]
2:20 AM
[COLOR="Yellow"]me: why not

old time's sake

[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: waste of time :P

sentiment's appreciated[/COLOR]

me: also you're worth keeping around for those nice manas

[COLOR="Magenta"]Sareln: Fire/Metamagic/Body

oh right[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Yellow"]me: not that I've got any use for them if I just get stomped next :P
2:21 AM
I wish PB would come back- I'd like a game with the old PBEM 1 crew again

although Cull would need a partner

who does everything

Cull can be the mascot[/COLOR]
2:22 AM
Sareln: haha

Summary:


Clan have not one, not three, but *two* Sons of the Inferno. Could be worse. It's possible they still have one waiting for a boat, though.


Iskender's NAP with the Clan actually ends earlier than I thought it did- possibly good news there.


It's not in this chat, but Sareln later messaged me to say that the Tredje did indeed retreat the Sons from striking distance, and promoted one of them to Body I.


We'd like to blame uberfish for the Sons of the Inferno but cannot as their presence is due to our own stupid oversight

[Bobchillingworth]

And to wrap this up, I've saved the best for last. Received these emails from Tedje yesterday & today, titled "NAP Proposal":

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hi Bob!

After some deliberation the Clan can offer the Balseraph the following deal:

A rolling 10-turn cooldown NAP, where 10 turns before our NAP is about to end each party can inform the other whether it wants the NAP to continue or expire. As I told you earlier we are vary of signing any longer NAPs at the current stage of the game, but we would like to continue the peaceful relationship between our two empires and we feel that this deal is a workable compromise.

Kind regards,

Tredje (& Mardoc), Orc (& Goblin[/COLOR])

[COLOR="Yellow"]Heya,


This rolling NAP would go into effect once our current one ends, correct? I mean, I'd assume so, but never hurts to be sure :P Anyway, if that's indeed the case then I'm agreed. Are the details of this NAP secret as well? I'm fine whether it is or isn't. I do appreciate having an excuse when people come running to me begging for me to invade you; "Sorry Sareln, my hands are tied!" "When does your agreement end?" "nobody knows!"


And I was being sincere when I said that I'm happy to work together in The Future, with all the vague promise of mutually-beneficial cooperation that statement entails If, for example, you wanted to trade your body mana for my entropy or chaos or whatever. Or I could eventually spread the Veil to some of your cities, if you adopt the faith & perhaps raise the AC a bit (which helps both of us- riders won't attack you, and my stigmata units get stronger). Or maybe we could kill dudes! Stuff like that. :D


Oh yeah, you'll see Loki on your border when you open the next turn. Don't worry, he can't cast any spells (not that I'd try to flip your cities anyway- surely that would be breaking our NAP). I'm trying to defog land right now, since he isn't able to conjure inspirations at the moment and isn't doing me any good just standing around. If you have a strong objection to him entering your land let me know, and I'll just skirt your borders instead as I send him towards Iskender / Sareln.


-Bobchillingworth [/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Hi there,

Yes, that is what I meant. Beginning with T110 we have a rolling NAP which will last indefinitely or until one party notifies the other that it wants the NAP to expire. The NAP will then last 10 turns before it ends. (I.e. if you message us on T140 that you want the NAP to end it will end on T150.)

Your offer of cooperation is generous, and something we will consider. However we would like to see how this affair with the Amurites turns out before making any real commitments as regards mana trades etc. I'm not sure if you are aware of it, but AV has already spread to one of our cities. We might be inclined to spread AV to more cities in the future. It's not as if our "big" cities would be hurt much by Blight =)

On the Loki issue I am afraid I must ask you not to move him inside our borders. What prompts us to do this isn't so much that we don't trust you, but that while we remain at war with Sareln we want to take every precaution that he doesn't receive sensitive information. I am sure you can understand this.


Kind regards,

Tredje (& Mardoc), Orc (& Goblin)[/COLOR]

Summary:


Almost every time some attempts to organize a dogpile in an RB game, it falls apart due to at least one person acting as a spoiler, either refusing to join or backing out before seeing the effort through to the end or fulfilling their commitment. This is my attempt to be a spoiler. I can live with it though, because unlike many of the players who have torpedoed other would-be Coalitions of the Willing, I think that I can actually win this game- if I don't get involved in a hopeless war with two super-units.


Although I'm far from being secure or having any sort of alliance with the Clan, I do feel a little bit better now that I have the rolling NAP- at the very least I've bought myself 10 more turns. I just need as much time as possible to get all my pieces together- ritualists, rust puppets, cultists, Hemah, Stygian; I probably can't get them all in time, but perhaps I can grab enough. And if the peace holds, I'll be freed up to take the fight to Serdoa, who I'm sure is planning his own assault on me.


I guess I should still check up with SL to see if he was able to get Serdoa / Iskender on board for an attack. I'm sure he didn't, and I of course have no interest in participating in some sort of boondoggle, but I may as well keep up the pretence of caring.

[Hesmyrr]

Non-barbarian Sons of Infernos, and

apparently you can wane gibbon, switch religion, and he can still cast spells as a shade
and won't leave

, hasn't this game been bundles of fun recently? (Actually, what did you guys mean by 'wane'?) I guess it'll be one of those 'information' games that significantly impact future PBEM rule sets. Glad to see there is still chance for comeback though.

So I am assuming super-emergency-ditch-plan *H* is no longer a go, looking at the way you wrote the last sentence right? Also it's rather obvious but don't try to sound too much disinterested when you talk with those other guys While you want as much time as possible, you would still want to have an ally when the hostilities between you and the orcs eventually break out.

[Bobchillingworth]

"Wane" simply refers to the spell that level 6 Sidar units can cast to become a shade.


I still want the Pact for the Grimoire if nothing else, so I'm going to continue researching that way- since it's going to take a while to reach & finish that tech no matter what I do, by the time I could summon Hyborem I hope to have a better picture of whether I really need to or not.

[Bobchillingworth]

I keep forgetting to post a picture of my latest city. Here it is:






It's the size 1 city in the East. Ninimasil, or something like that. I captured it from the barbs a couple turns ago, at the cost of two warriors. Obnoxiously one of them was CIII, Shock and lost his combat at 95% odds, but two other warriors picked up shock for themselves by winning at about 30%, so I suppose it balances out.


KotE finished at EoT, I'm going to cue up mage guilds in Hexam, Coombe, and Jubilee next turn. What to research next... I'm not ready to start colonizing islands yet, so sailing is out. I could found the OO, but I'm not sure there's much benefit to rushing for it now as opposed to picking it up later. So I'll probably go for a 4-turn philo. Writing looks tempting as ever, but as nice as some libraries would be, maintaining the focus on gathering key military techs and pumping units / expanding takes priority.

[Bobchillingworth]

So, time for my slightly belated turn 100 report! I'll start with my civilization.



Here it is:







I intend to kill the Lizardman on the "Lair" tile in a couple turns, and then surround & explore it. I also want to put together a raiding part fairly soon to raze the barb city near the Standing Stones, and then refound. Coombe's border expansion at the end of turn 101 revealed that the barb city only has a warrior and two archers defending at the moment.

My gold and beakers both improved noticeably at the end of turn 101, due to a market completing, a hamlet turning into a village, and the Veil spreading to one of Serdoa's cities.



Detailed views of each my cities, along with descriptions:





Coombe is the second city I founded after my capital, and one of my three best. Frontlines in the even of war with the Clan, but for the moment safe due to my NAP. Reasonable production capacity, worthwhile site economically, but the limits of its potential are starting to show now that it's working almost every decent tile already. I'm going to build at least a couple adepts here after the Mage Guild completes, and then perhaps an Arena. More warriors / freaks would be nice as well, although expensive. A Palisade is also needed, although not immediately.





Argenteria is my most marginal city, long-term. Not terrible, but it doesn't really excel at anything. Okay commerce, especially once I eventually get a lighthouse in there and it starts working all that coast. I'm not sure what to do about the grassland forests- I could eventually pick up archery and mill them, or I could cottage over them. Probably just going to ignore them for now, since the city grows slowly anyway. Next tile to work will be the empty grassland square, one I build a cottage on it. I intend to build workboats here for a while- I need them to explore shipwrecks, explore, and pre-build nets for island settlements. Production isn't good enough to justify heavier ships, except maybe galleys.





The capital, and by far my best city. Military pump, although the commerce is quite good as well. Going to build nothing but adepts, warriors, settlers here for the foreseeable future. Warriors for garrisons and to take that barb city to the north, settlers for islands, adepts for Inspirations and puppet defense.





Decent coastal production, okay commerce. Role at the moment is dedicated ship pump for western naval operations. Going to build a workboat next, then a warrior, then boats once sailing comes in, mostly triremes. I don't need an * enormous* amount of boats, but at least enough to explore any shipwrecks which workboats can't get to first, and to quickly ferry forces to islands for colonization / reinforcement. Also has enough food to be a good GP pump. I'd love to build the Heron Throne here, but it's so expensive I don't think I can justify it without getting marble from someone.





Newish city, production site (it can work a third hill another city is currently "borrowing" but not actually using). Probably a conventional (meaning melee) unit pump, since production isn't quite good enough for adepts or eventually priests.





Newest city. Took me long enough to finally connect that gold, heh. Great future naval pump for the Eastern shores. Can also produce soldiers! And enough food to produce great people and good commerce. I like this city a lot =) Going to finish the market, after that either elder council or boats, depending on need. Will switch to bananas to grow to size 2 once the plantation is complete.





My second-best city, on the frontlines for any future confrontation with Serdoa. The defending freak is Strong and Heroic Defense I. Going to produce military here for the foreseeable future, adepts, warriors, freaks, maybe an arena too. Courthouse would be nice, but 6 turns of production is a lot to save just 2 gold a turn in expenses. Workers are going to start chopping the jungle soon for more defensible terrain and better health.

[Bobchillingworth]

Cities overview screen:





My builds are pleasantly uniform Need to start replacing those with expansion and military, soon.

Speaking of which:


Military:





Mostly warriors, sigh. I still lack an edge, like Serdoa's PZ or SL's Wood Golems, or Tredje's damnable SotI. Getting one ASAP is the focus of the tech plan.


Demographics:





Looking good, although others are starting to catch up now, and almost everyone has more growth potential remaining than me (although a lot of that is because of how behind they gotten due to mismanagement and/or wars). You can see from my cities overview screen that a lot of my GNP is just culture, but even without it I think I'm still in the lead (haven't done the math). If I don't get crushed by him, it's actually probably a good thing that Tredje has the Sons, otherwise I'd be the #1 dogpile target (and I still might be, although possibly for different reasons).


Not pictured is the top 5 city screen- Jubilee and Coombe were listed on turn 100, and Hexam kicked out someone to take a spot the following turn. If only two of those cities weren't so exposed to attack! Oh well, gotta love the Balz crazy happy cap and the game giving so much weight to culture.

[Bobchillingworth]

Thanks to a map trade with Sareln, I have pretty much a complete world map. I've known that we in fact are not on a New World script for a while now (although we really should be- that would have neutered the Sons. My biggest fault with the map is that, although the presence of the Sons is due to player oversight, it would have been nice if the map maker had made them significantly more difficult to obtain).



Here are each of my rivals' empires, going clockwise from mine:


Tredje





Tredje has five cities- I have visibility on four, and according the Sareln the fifth is on an island to Tredje's south (alas one of the two I'd like to colonize as well, I think). Overall land is good, but his empire seems rather poorly developed. He lacks elder councils, markets, and only the capital as warrens. Cities are small, too. Strangely, the underimproved size three town under the Dragon Bones has a granary. He can't whip yet, so not sure what's going on there. Economically he's in a rut, but that doesn't matter so much with him packing a trio of super-units. He also will have a lot of uncontested land to expand into once he finishes off Sareln.


Threat level: 5/5


Sareln





Poor oft-abused Sareln actually has the best (potential) land of anyone, in my opinion. Lush, access to some nice unique features, great luxuries, and strategic resources very close by. He moved his starting settler on turn 0, but his land would be great regardless. Sadly he's getting no chance to make any real use of it. Tredje has reportedly refused to make any kind of peace deal with him, and it's a certainty that he'll kill off Sareln using the three Sons shortly after the worldspell wears off. Total shame, Sareln was excited about joining this game, and I get along with him really well so he'd have been a fantastic ally (his strategically advantageousness positioning on the map would have played a major role as well). And I'd have loved to get my hands on his Metamagic. Oh well, like Hes pointed out this game's legacy is probably going to mostly be to serve as yet another example of settings which you really just shouldn't try to run a competitive game with.

Sareln has only the two cities pictured.


Threat level:


Iskender





Iskender probably has the most "natural" land to expand into of anyone, although I'm pretty close if not actually equal. Good resources, mitigated by the presence of a fair amount of tundra. It's not pictured, but he appears to have access to several icy islands in the north, one of them holding Bridgit. Pyre apparently somehow still standing, although that may just be old map info. He has five cities- you can see four of them in the picture, and then barely make out the borders of the fifth on and around the deer east of his capital, bordering SL. Using Leaves + Lumbermills to get more use out of his forests, an operation which takes a bit of planning and reveals his claim to have gotten a religious guy out of a lair as likely a lie. If he has indeed researched the Leaves himself, than he might be even further from Deception than I thought. He has the most developed cities after me- I think all or close to all of them have markets & monuments (I didn't take notes when I checked them out in-game), but he's short on elder councils and other stuff. Good long-term potential, if he's working with the Clan he could be very dangerous (and the Clan kind of dumb), but if he's next on their hitlist then there's a good chance that he'd doomed.


Threat level: 3/5


Square Leg





Three cities, all pictured. Hilariously, he has fires in his lands from exploded PZ. Two of his cities are actually quite nice, although he lacks improvements in them, due presumably to having been forced to pump military, and now wanting to spam settlers to get back into the game. Only the capital has a sculptor's studio. His land kind of sucks, tbh. It doesn't help that he's lost territory to Serdoa, Iskender, and the Barbs (although one assumes that he can at least fix the last of those ). I think he has conceded a bit away to the Clan as well. No pigs, which is really odd, nor horses. Was Uberfish not aware that the Luchiurp can build chariots and need pigs if they want early mounted? Having boar riders might have helped when fighting those PZ. Strange. Anyway, he's pretty gimped at the moment but since two of his neighbors are underdeveloped as well his two decent cities may well be enough to make him a real factor again. But I think that he lacks any chance of actually winning the game, unless pretty much everyone else gets involved in a pointless and massively destructive war (which admittedly is always a real possibility).


Oh, and you can see from my signs a sneaky thing I have in the works. Loki (1SW of "Valley of Wind" in the picture) is going to move over to the "Maybe Loki Here" forested staging tile (actually might be 1E of the sign- I think I misplaced it). From there I can move onto the marble, which Serdoa has helpfully roaded for me, and potentially flip & burn "PZ Noob". I'll provide further updates as things develop on that front.


Threat level: 2/5


Serdoa





According to Square Leg, Serdoa has lost most interest in this game. Which isn't going to make him any less of a pain in the ass, unfortunately. Explody Zombies are still very dangerous, and my counters really haven't improved since I was last worried about him. Rust Puppets, better warrior spam (with bronze!) and being able to reach HBR quickly if need be does or will help on that front, though. Also he hasn't really been building much military lately. I guess that he wasn't lying about wanting to rebuild his econ before murdering me, hah. I don't intend to give him the opportunity. As long as my NAP with the Clan holds, once I have the tools I'm going to try to remove the Sheaim, permanently. Just never going to feel safe with that civ and that player right on my border. I can't see much of his land, but it does admittedly look pretty crummy. He has four cities, with the capital in the fog. I don't know how much free land he has to his east- hopefully enough for a couple more cities, so that he doesn't run out of spots immediatly and feel completed to try stealing land from me next. By treaty he has the rights to a city 1E of his southern rice tile, but I'm culturally in control over most of that area, which means those nice grassland river tiles are going to waste- another reason to take him out. Grottiburg is actually rather well-developed, the other two pictured are both fairly new and haven't had time to build much. He has somewhat alarming amounts of production potential available.


Threat level: 4/5 (until I get some real PZ counters, anyway).




And now having provided an overview of all of the other empires and my own, I'd like to register one other complaint about the map, futile as it might be. Look at my copper. Then look at everyone else's. Then mine again. Notice anything? No, it has not become diamonds- it's too frigging far away! It's almost closer to Serdoa's capital than mine! And it's not like I settled further away from it when I moved on turn 0- the opposite, in fact. If he hadn't decided to fight SL instead of me, I'd be dead. Since I expanded toward the Clan with my first city, Serdoa probably could have just taken that copper for himself with one of his first cities, and honestly he'd have had about equal rights to it as I. I understand that Uberfish probably wanted to spark some conflict or something with the resource placements, but this was really unfair, considering that most people can almost reach theirs with a couple capital border pops. My horse is also in a lousy location, although at least it's unquestionably mine. Oh well, something to keep in mind when creating maps in the future. I wouldn't care if it was something like blasting powder, but copper is just too critical a resource in FFH to not have placed as equally as possible.