FFH II PBEM VIII Lurker's Lurking Thread (For Lurkers) [SPOILERS]

[Thoth]

Originally was going to post this in Ravus's thread, but agreed with Xenin that it might be overstepping what spoiled lurkers should say:

Check this to make sure, but I'm pretty sure both the gate and Basium RAISE the AC. The logic was that bringing another single minded zealous waring faction into the world would only do more to destabilize it, even if they were fighting agaisnt the forces of hell. Order is definitely not the "good guys" religion in this game, its just serving the other side of the war between the gods.

Yeah, the Gate *raises* the AC.

I think it's automatic. You don't get peace with the barbs in a team game where one of the team mates plays a barbarian leader.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

Based on one of my non-AW test games for X, having a non-barb teammate does not auto declare on the barbs. (but that was over 6 months ago and I might be mistaken. )

[Tasunke]

When you 'start' on the same team ... Barb peace is enforced.

However when creating a permanent alliance ... reply is hazy, try again.

IIRC, creating a permanent alliance does actually destroy peace with barbs though

[Ellimist]

I don't think building the Gate will cause him to declare on the barbs unless the barbs are worshipping AV. IIRC, Basium starts doesn't affect the war/peace status of the team he joins except to declare on all AV civs. I could be wrong though, I very rarely build the Gate in single player, and never yet with the Clan/Doviello.

I think that Darreljs's team lost peace with the barbs in FFH-10 because that game is AW. I used the same map(thanks Mist!) to play a single player (hotseat) game as Team Horse/Centaur, and the Clan/Khazad AI team maintained Barb peace.

Also, Ravus mentions "building beasts later," but doesn't summoning Basium block you from adopting AV?

[Tasunke]

Variable-> I need to test the Clan either building the gate or signing a Perm Allliance with sumbuddy (mid-game)-before turn 0 doesn't count.

If it doesn't cause barb war however, that'd be awesome, as in SP you could always try to Permanent Ally with Hyborem in order to get 'barb peace protection' from the horsemen ...

(hmm ... maybe in a PBEM too? we will see )

In any case, Basium has no control over the civ that summoned him, but yea I think you can't be AV when you actually build/finish the gate. But you can switch back almost immediately afterwards.

(I think Hyborem had to switch to No State Religion while building Mercurian gate in some simul turn sillyness a while back)

[Ellimist]

(I think Hyborem had to switch to No State Religion while building Mercurian gate in some simul turn sillyness a while back)

Hyborem is permanently locked into AV and can never switch out.

[Selrahc]

Hyborem is permanently locked into AV and can never switch out.

No. But he does need to switch in. The AI will do it automatically as soon as it founds a city, but if you take control from them before that then you can stay in "No state religion" and build the gate. Do it quite quick too... Hyborem can generate a great engineer very fast so if the switch civ techs up to fanatacism for you, it's almost faster to switch over to Hyborem and Gengie rush the gate than it is to scatch build it.

The fatal flaw in the scheme though is the fact that if the AI can settle, it will. Switching to AV before you even get a chance to take control of Hyborem in most cases.

[T-hawk]

I believe Hyborem spawns with the city already in place, and at population 3. It's not a question of settling. It is a question of taking control before the AI takes a turn. I think the turn structure of single player makes it impossible: you end turn, Hyborem spawns and the AI plays its turn, but the popup to take control doesn't occur until the start of the human's next turn. Multiplayer sequential turns makes it possible, since there's another player inbetween, during whose turn there exists a time window to change Hyborem to human.

[Selrahc]

I believe Hyborem spawns with the city already in place, and at population 3. It's not a question of settling.

He definitely doesn't. When he settles his cities automatically start at Pop 3. But he doesn't spawn with a settled city. In VI I had no settled cities when I took control.

[T-hawk]

I get it then - Hyborem can't adopt AV before he has a city, because no civ can adopt any religion that's not in any of its cities, which is true by definition while Hyborem has no cities.

I was remembering from FFH PBEM III, where the Hyborem AI did play a turn and settle before we figured out how to cut the slot over to a human player. And the first screenshot I saw of Hyborem in this game came from Mist, after Krill had played a turn and settled.

[Tasunke]

for the record I think Hyborem can (at least in some modmods) switch back to "No State Religion."

Well, what I THINK will happen ... is that Krill will die next turn, Mist will summon Mercurians first ... and Ravus eventually dies (due to a dogpile on all sides).

HOWEVER!!!

I think it'd be really cool if Ravus could

A) keep Hyborem alive (via city gift)

B) Summon Hyborem

and basically own the Supernatural forces of the game