(August 21st, 2013, 01:04)Ceiliazul Wrote: Staring across always-war lines is pretty common actually. You teamed with xenu in an always war before, right?
What if you floated the idea of a retroactive ban on blockades? Sounds like there might be enough support...
Nice failgold economy, looking forward to seeing what a real econ looks like. *ahem*
-ceil
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I've been building courthouses everywhere, and markets/ grocers in commerce cities when I have t felt threatened. Now I'll start on banks. Not much room for more cottages unfortunately. Golden ages should help.
It's been quite a while since an update. I've been busy and PB11 got my civ time for several days. Anyway:
T123
ALL OF THE BOATS, with some numbers drawn in. I'm still getting the best of the blockading action here. Still hate it. But, I'll keep doing it until he makes me stop.
Highlighted, Zak is blockading Ichabod again, strongly suggesting that he has control of the sea lanes and islands over there. GLH has been incredible for Zak. Also, the swap to the Big B and slavery. Maybe whipping out some buildings? I can't remember what was up this turn now, writing a week later.
The plan: knight Ichabod and take this city on T128. After calculating for fail gold, I moved up the invasion, estimated for T126-7.
Grocers! Then, banks. And knights!
Zak's golden age GNP kills mine.
T124
Novice continues maneuvering his fleet, here blocking my large fleet from joining up with the southern blockade. I position each turn for maximum resource/food denial while minimizing my exposure to his large stacks.
Zak and I stare at each other, novice has his fleet in port.
Hmm...this is basically the same picture. I think I mean the take a shot of the garrison in Fish. Bah.
Ah, here we are. I feel like I'm more or less covered here. I don't love all those cats though, but I have a few knights to flank them some. Timing is tricky, though, as I'm prepared to move my knights south to take a swipe at Ichabod, leaving me vulnerable here for 3-4 turns. I've kept my knights out of sight for the most part, though, so maybe novice won't notice when they move out.
2t on Engineering. Some pikes would make me feel better in some of the far-flung regions. But, banks!!!
T125
More boating. I've drawn in our numbers as usual lately. I like the picketing line novice has drawn across. If he'll leave his boats that way I may take a swipe at a small stack of five.
I'm still keeping an eye on his garrison here. Nothing terribly exciting at the moment. I still have a decent stack covering my workers, who will finish the workshop/chop next turn. I've kept the forest in place as long as possible to provide the extra 50% defense while covering the stack. The chop into the courthouse will be nice. Otherwise, no news is good news here. No new attempts to blockade Great Bend.
Still watching this garrison. No change yet. I've managed to finish the cottage NE of Miles City without incident.
I've updated my signposts. Right now the mounted stack is 2S of the horse tile and will move out next turn to 1E of SA. I have two workers who will road the western silk tile, opening up the attack from the fog on ItAin'tMeBabe. I don't have a strong garrison to defend the city, but a quick attack is the plan anyway. I figure it would take a couple of turns for Ichabod to bring any force to bear, and I should be able to hold with the knights for a turn or so until I get some proper defenders in. I'm looking forward to this.
This will be a whip very soon.
Banks!!! They're like cocaine to perk up a struggling economy. No itchy side effects, no bad aftertaste! Guaranteed!
I really need to start up a golden age. My economy is struggling. Otherwise, doing okish.
a couple combat workers could road the silk tile 2n of ItAintMeBabe and the knights could hit out of the fog. The question is, burn the city or keep it?
One last turn to report, and not a good one for me...
T126
I have bad news, and in two places by two opponents. First, Zak:
That fight looked like this, to the best that I can tell:
Zak attacks stack 1N of Deadwood: (forest, +50%)
catapult vs. mace (.6%) - LOSS, 0 hits on mace, 4 collateral
c1/melee knight vs. mace (32.6%) - LOSS, mace 62/100
c1 knight vs. crossbow (76.1%) - WIN, knight 82/100
crossbow vs. mace (90.2%) - LOSS, mace 2/100
c2 knight vs. c1 impi (87.5%) - WIN, knight 66/100
c2 HA vs. c1 axe (51.7%) - WIN (20/100)
c1 crossbow vs.c1 axe (90.6%) - WIN, 49/10
archer vs. maceman 2/100 (100%) - WIN
I did wins/losses from zak's perspective. Why? I'm not sure. I guess because he was the attacker. The knights obviously weren't there last turn, so he had them in the galley. The catapult wasn't there last turn either. Anyway, the upshot of this is that I have a mace, crossbow, and an axe to hold these units at bay. Given the terrain, he won't take the city on T127, so I'll be able to whip a pike and bring up...something from Great Bend. Most likely, Deadwood is dead meat. But, truthfully, this is the good news of the turn.
I'm missing a city here.
Looks like the buildup in the north with all the catapults was to draw my attention up there. Sleight of hand. Either way, novice pulled off a good attack here. This is what it looked like:
novice vs. Virginia City (+50% defense 40% culture/walls):
c2 knight vs CG longbow (33.4%) - WIN, knight 20/100
c2/melee knight vs c1 mace (33.8%) - LOSS, mace 43/100
c3 knight vs CG longbow (64.3%) - WIN, knight 5/100
c1/melee knight vs c1 impi (69.2%) - WIN, knight 46/100
c1/melee knight vs c1 axe (79.7%) - LOSS, axe 31/100
c1/melee knight vs c1 axe (79.7%) - Loss, axe 31/100
c2 knight vs CG archer (95.9%) - WIN, knight 70/100
c2 knight vs archer - (96.9%) - WIN, knight 70/100
c1 knight vs c1 mace @ 4.2 (96.8%) - WIN, knight 62/100
knight vs catapult (99.1%) - WIN
c1 chariot vs c1 axe @ 31/100 (100%) - WIN
chariot vs 31/100 axe (100%) - WIN
This obviously ruins my plans to invade Ichabod. One turn later and I wouldn't have been able to counterattack. As for whether or not a counterattack was a good move, well, you can be the judge of that.
Counterattack at Virginia City:
c1 chariot vs. chariot @3.4/4 (53%, attack across river) - LOSE, chariot @ 2.6/4. Shit, got only one hit...
c1 chariot vs. chariot @ 2.6/4 (87.1%, attack across river) - WIN, chariot 2.5/4
c2 knight vs. c2 knight (50%) - WIN, 6.0/10
c2 knight vs. c1/melee knight (67.6%) - WIN, 4.3/10
c2 knight vs. c1/melee knight (67.6%) - LOSE, knight 80/100
c2 knight vs. flank/sentry knight (73%) - LOSE, knight 5.8/10. holy shit that's bad...
c1 knight vs. c1/melee knight @ 8.0/10 (84.3%) - WIN, 6.4/10
knight vs. c2 spear (69.9%) - WIN, 6.4/10
The first chariot attack was intended to save a knight to clean up one of novice's knights later in the fight, but I lost the coin flip fight across the river. Overall, my result was, I think, slightly below average. I split the coin flip battles, lost 1/2 of my 66% fights, and a 73% fight too. If I had done a little better I might have killed another 2-3 units. At the end, the matchups were unfavorable so I stopped. I had an impi that could have wrecked a knight if not for the phalanx, but my chariot couldn't be used against the phalanx. T126 and the axe replacement is still giving me a fit.
So, the result of my counterattack is almost certainly that novice promotes, heals, and kills my stack. He may then make a push to the north, but I should have ample forces to stop him cold. Or, he can try to kill my other border city. It isn't terribly strong either. We'll see. I'm not terribly worried for Dodge City just now, despite it having a single archer defending. Ogallala is nearby, and I have lots of production capacity/population to whip in both cities if it comes to that.
Elsewhere:
Fueled by blood rage, the blockade is back in full effect. Everywhere.
I shift my southern boats 1S and blockade, tantalizingly out of distance. Still, I hate doing this.
Here, the planned civics swap. I'm going to fire a golden age. Swapping out of OR won't delay the bank in Lonesome Dove, which is the one that matters most. It finishes EoT either way. I'll have to hold off on that luxurious pacifism GA GP spree until I'm not worried about losing chunks of cities. I'll still squeeze out another two GP during this GA to go with the Great Spy I'll still have. I used the Great Scientist instead, as I am much less likely to get a duplicate spy than scientist.
But, I'll have a look at the cities before doing the civic swap just to make sure the swap won't throw off any important micro timing...
...and then I forget to swap civics before ending turn...it was that kind of turn.
Lonesome Dove is looking good with its new bank. I swapped the plains deer over to Austin...
...to push out a great person here before my NE/GL city, Dodge City. Here's the back of the napkin for that, now that I've messed up the GA swap to mercantilism this turn:
Swapping to Merc, Austin GP before DC:
Austin -
base - 16
adjusted - 40
335-169 = 166 (5t) - 4t, 6 remains
with mercantilism
base - 19
adjusted - 47 (4t) - 3t, 25 remains
Can speed up 1t by running -3f config (grass bronze to spec. May also swap PH deer for GF deer to avoid starvation)
base - 22
adjusted - 55 - (4t) - 3t, 1 remains (obviously run an additional spec on last turn)
Dodge City
base - 13
adjusted - 45
335-131 = 204 (5t) 4t, 24 remains
with mercantilism
base - 16
adjusted - 56 (4t) - 3t, 36 remains
So, basically, I can run mercantilism starting next turn and get the GP in Austin. Getting the second in Dodge City is trivially easy, unless novice ruins everything down there.
Abilene, making a quick catapult or few. Just in case novice moves north.
Knights counter knights, right? Since I'm losing all my knights (maybe not... but probably), I better keep building them.
I do love this city. Would it be better to ignore the GP pool in Austin and just get them out here with super high efficiency? Maybe, but I think I really need to bulk up on the defense here. This city could have used an Ikhanda at some point, but never had the time between wonder builds. We'll have to settle for 1 promo pikes once we swap into Theocracy. I seriously can't believe I forgot to make that change.
A pike to send north. Will it make it in time? Ehh, who knows. I would be heartbroken if zak razed this beauty, somehow. God knows I hope he doesn't have a super fast 5 move galley in the fog. As long as I keep at least two defenders, I'm safe from a 1t raze job, but it could get dicey. I feel very vulnerable here right now. At least I got to take the cliché Moai in a golden age before the end.
I think this is my hand drawn plan to get another pike down to Dodge City. I have a galley 2W of the southern deer. It can go E/SW, then SW/SW and unload 1N of Dodge City. Or, as drawn, can do...something else. Unload in Abilene, I think. Clearly moving to DC is more helpful.
More knights. I don't think that novice will wait to press his attack, now that he's seen my knights in the far south. I'd expect those cats to come for me sooner rather than later. So, more knights. I'm going to wish I had cats of my own here very soon. I have two or three up here, I think.
Pikes. This would probably be better as a cat, but I'll finish this first.
Previously lamented Deadwood. I should get this whip, and probably nothing after that.
Potentially unsafe, but this will finish next turn. I'll finish growing working the mines, as well as finish the pike. Unless I forgot what the real plan was, I played this turn a couple of days ago.
I'm not so super sparkly this time, despite the golden age. Brave Virginia City, you won't be forgotten!!! (You just may not be the last....)
Well? I guess the big question I have is (without spoiler knowledge, of course): was the counterattack the right move?
I fully expect that I'll lose those four knights. I thought about whether or not to attack, and figured if I waited I'd only have to face them again when they'd healed, with more promotions. I'll have five more knights down here next turn, so if he moves north at all I'll get another crack at them. Anyway, let me know what you might have done here. I'm still a bit shaky on tactics from time to time.
(August 30th, 2013, 18:44)Ceiliazul Wrote: a couple combat workers could road the silk tile 2n of ItAintMeBabe and the knights could hit out of the fog. The question is, burn the city or keep it?
Is ichabod the 484k power?
Well, that was the plan, but as you can see, the plan has unfortunately changed. I would have tried to keep it. If nothing else, I would have burned the population on unit whips. I'm sad that I couldn't get this done. I just waited too long. Byproduct of a bad economy, I suppose. By the time I had enough troops amassed to make a move, so had my other neighbor.
Edit: Yes, Ichabod had the low power.
Zak is the one taking advantage, though. At this point, I have zak pegged as the game leader. I'm not sure if I'm second or third. Zak just fired his second golden age, this one fueled by MoM. Novice has used two golden ages, and I've just fired my first. Ichabod has also already used a GA. I don't have a sense for how much I'll grow economically in the next 5t, but I'll be able to fire another GA immediately if I need to, and probably will. So, I'd say I'm on par with novice, maybe a touch behind him. Until he starts mass drafting. I'm ~2600 beakers behind him to Nationalism, as I still need Philosophy.
I'm getting lazier and lazier on reporting this game. Novice went ahead and cleaned up what knights he could reach (all four that I left on the border) and returned the rest to Fall to lick their wounds and congratulate each other on their fighting prowess with tavern beers and promotions.
All he left was a chariot, which I happily killed. I then retreated to my very modest (weak) mounted stack.
Impressive, right? In all, I lost more knights on the counterattack than I killed. Not a great deal. Killing the chariot did earn a GG, which I settled in Ogallala. Also pictured, I built a plantation at San Antonio.
You can see Zak has moved knights into my territory on the island, pillaging my Ivory. The plantation is a nice replacement, so no unhappy faces. Nice try, zak! Also pictured, zak's fleet skulking around Rwanda. I returned my fleet to the clams tile so they can strike at zak's fleet, should he go for the blockade.
Zak consolidated his troops on the forest hill. I'll probably never get them off. Landsknechts... eghhh... But, the LB defends against everything now anyway. Meh.
Novice retains a large force in Fish. Maybe he'll invade. Maybe not. I still have a decent force in Miles City, but he could make things interesting for me if he pushed in. He still has a bunch of triremes in Foot, and has moved ~5 spears in there, presumably to counter zak moving knights to the island.
You'll never guess, but I'm blockading!!! Eventually he'll give battle. Right? Here's how this ends. I'll keep chasing his boats south two tiles per turn, shadowing his movements. I'll continue to leave two boats out of the stack, behind his fleet, blockading the living hell out of his seafood. One day he'll maybe move 1 tile and blockade with the other, and I'll let the RNG either smash his fleet in my territory, or kill what resolve I have left to play the turns. The ratio is 24:18 in my favor, I've got to get some decent kills out of that. Right? If I lose 2/3 of the fights in attacking his 18, that should still be ~12 survivors for me vs. 12 damaged for him on the second turn. I should be able to do something about that, I would think. So, let's let the fleets continue sailing to the south. If I'm lucky, we can fight next to shore and my GG medic.
My only concern is that novice can reinforce through a fort chain using the lake. But he'd have to give up the farmed banana and then build two more forts SE and SE/E of the horse. Is that a legal chain, btw? Not sure if you could have two forts together, or if you had to alternate them between a city and a water tile. I guess I could fire up the WB to find out, but I can't muster the effort.
The bank at Lonesome Dove is the only one that has completed, but it makes a huge difference. I don't think the golden age is yet reflected. Probably.
Zak is using more workshops than me, apparently. Also, his golden age will last longer. Stupid MoM... I've really done a solid job of landing all the mediocre wonders and giving away all the awesome ones (GLH,Mids, MoM).
Virginia City isn't eating so well as it used to, being dead and all that.
And, our bloody nose. I really wish I could have killed Ichabod's bloody bridge city instead of losing my own city and knights. Oh well.
Not pictured: I remembered to swap to Mercantilism and Theocracy this turn. I'll still get the GP out of Austin the same turn as Dodge City. All I'll have to do is run a few extra specialists in DC to make up the increased amount (what is it, 50 more?).
I think the fort chain would be legal. Each fort touches water so you should be able to get a boat into each of the forts.
Played: Pitboss 18 - Kublai Khan of Germany Somalia | Pitboss 11 - De Gaulle of Byzantium | Pitboss 8 - Churchill of Portugal | PB7 - Mao of Native America | PBEM29 Greens - Mao of Babylon
Ok, so obviously my economy is not roaring. What should I have done to improve it, other than build GLH and/or Mids? I've severely under cottaged, though I am hard pressed to see where I'd have done better with more cottages, as each city has a specific use for the most part or has been neglected economically to serve a larger good. Fort Smith fits the bill on both of these counts. It has a good number of cottages that it shares with Miles City. Originally I envisioned giving them all to MC and making this a fishing village, but MC is so good as a production city that the cottages are better in Fort Smith, which I underdeveloped severely in whipping out trireme after trireme. The whip is the only decent production to be had in FS. Other than this minor development miscue/poor planning, I'm fairly satisfied with how I've managed my economy, but I'm still behind significantly.
The best that I can come up with is that the GLH is by far the best option for this map, and that the Mids are the next best thing. I expanded hard, have built up courthouses and Ikhandas, and now markets, grocers, and BANKS are coming online, and finally I have a decent economy, but my competition beat me to grocers and banks and have the better economic wonders. I'll never catch up to the specialist economy because I just don't have that many tiles to cottage. Once Astronomy arrives, my economy is shot through. Also, zak is continuing to profit from warring with Ichabod, nibbling away at his territory. Land wins out, just about every time. I've stared at what I think is Ichabod's strongest defensive border for eternity now. I thought I finally had a chance to break out with my planned knight attack, only to see novice spoil the attack (and raze a city).
Zak is saving up money, sitting on Paper at 1t for a few turns now, and more than likely building up GPPs (scientists) to double bulb through Education and take Liberalism. I'm guessing he'd go for Nationalism, but if he takes Astronomy instead (which he'd have to telegraph by teching Compass), I'd be ruined at Great Bend (Moai) and would certainly be out of the game. Even Nationalism is bad enough for me, because both of my chief rivals would be up the ~1800 beakers on me, and we know my economy is a struggle during even the good times.
The best thing that I can do, I think, is just keep running golden ages. My National Epic/Great Library (and a smattering of other wonders) city, Dodge City, has a very good food surplus and can churn out GP better than anywhere else in the world. Once I squeeze the GP out of Austin, I'll push out another the same turn in Dodge City, and then push hard for GP after GP from that point on. Unless novice invades and I have to swap over to production there, which it can also do quite well.
Here's a question: Now that all of my opponents have Engineering and pikes (or worse, those stupid Landsknechts), should I be investing much in knights, or should I just build collateral and longbows/pikes? Offensive warfare seems beyond my reach right now. Even if I build up a strong attack force, I can't hold anything against novice (cultural pressure would make a counterattack trivially easy). I could perhaps poach the bloody bridge from Ichabod still, but that leaves my knights out of position to counterattack whenever novice moves in again. I suppose you just have to take chances here and there.