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El Grillo · September 16th, 2016, 08:13

Wait, how is it even possible for Alhazard's team to not generate a GP by this point? PHI, even without Pacifism, should have have been enough, no? Are they deliberately forgoing Engineers for Citizens or something? :D

Nationalism within 15t sounds like a good estimate, so AP in BD makes sense. Not confident one way or another about whipping another Worker.

ReallyEvilMuffin · September 16th, 2016, 08:28

(September 16th, 2016, 07:21)Nicolae Carpathia Wrote: Great Engineer is born this turn, T204.

146g at -9gpt, so we have 16 turns of 100% research remaining. This will decrease when we settle clams/deer.

At current commerce rates, nationalism is 16 turns away. This will decrease in the short term, when we whip off the oasis and cottage, and increase when we add more cottages and the furs and the commerce from the clams city (and perhaps citizens working the coasts of UU.

Without AP in Baraddur, the great engineer arrives in 15 turns.

If we put AP in Baraddur, the next great person arrives in ~9 turns. I really like the idea of rolling the dice, realistically, we should expect to research Nat within 15 turns.

Worker moves made.

Henry Ford, the Great Engineer, was born in Plako's city. Hang on, has Mist not popped a great person?

Also, now we've seen Plako's cities, time to make contact with Mackoti. I suggest we do so via the arctic landbridge, and that means sending the explorer NW. This has the benefit of defogging our SE and SW as well.

WK named his most recent city "Krill Next Door". Suggestion that Mackoti rename himself Krill.

Mist built a Buddhist Temple in his city. Uh, what? Was he thinking of popping AP? Then why didn't he rush for it? He could have beaten us to it, easily.

One last decision, haven't ended turn: AP in BD or Tower? Still heavily leaning towards BD.

As for the worker whip decision, I was considering doing it on T206 whip. While it is a 2>1 whip, it does regrow the turn after the worker pops out.

The benefit of it would be 9 workers distributed across 5 cities. The distribution also feels just right: 3-4 workers improving the heavily jungled Sadrith Mora, 1-2 improving Unseen U, 1-2 improving Clams/Deer/Gold, and 2-3 improving BD and Tower.

The downside is we won't get to work 2 resource tiles for 2 turns. But there isn't too much to build in BD (Monastery and Library, and even if we have the extra population, it's not like there are cottages to grow onto.

I've been thinking about this over lunch, and there is a third way where we roll the dice far less over the GP type. I feel stupid for not thinking of it before.

If we put the AP in whizzaeds tower, we have a temple built this turn in baradur. This then can run a priest specialist. Every turn it puts into an additional priest specialist turn, will reduce the GP birth by a turn.

The turn the GP is due will not affect the GP pool, so we can already shave a turn off without diluting the pool down to 14 turns. It also gives us more GPP for the dilution, as the 2/4 from the AP counts equal as the 3/6 from the free GE specialist. Also this benefits us as we will have less pressure on getting tiles up for baradur to work. This also has the bonus of us getting the smallest dilution of the pool to get the GP out on that turn.

I wish our sim had the right tech costs, but essentially I don't think any new cities will cost us as such, but they might not be profitable. I think we will probably break even on city 5.

I can't get an idea until later, but I would envisage running a priest at size 4 in baradur on? This will get us out a GE in about11-12 turns, maybe this is too quick.

The other option is we can swap to caste the turn before getting nationalism. We can then have as many specs in the city running as we want without diluting the pool. So just run the eng until the turn pre nationalism, switch to caste and run x scientists to help push us over the tech line, and we would want to be in caste for the GA really anyway to get a GS from UU.

So basically I agree with the idea to speed up the baradur specialist, except I think that the AP being built there is a more risky way of doing it. It would end up being about a 70% chance of a GE instead of 95+

Agree with the other moves, can we wait 4-5 hours so I can get a feel of simming out the GP birth? A pre taj switch to caste to pop the GP without diluting the pool has really tickled me. It does mean we need to keep the size of Baradur up though.

Nicolae Carpathia · September 16th, 2016, 11:07

These options are intriguing. Especially the second one with running caste scientists the turn before Nat hits. That means we'd only have ~2 switches before we lock ourselves in to caste. Luckily, we can predict tech costs after city #5 is settled. Plus, rolling a scientist isn't so bad if it sets us on the liberalism race (I'm still not sure how the rule the turn the GP coming in not weighing into the pool's odds). Thought we might need to run several scientists for a few turns (and that definitely will skew the odds in the pool).

Not sure I like the idea of slow-running a priest though. Also, it would completely preclude the option of performing a 1-pop worker whip on T206.

What we can safely decide is to rush the AP in Tower this turn. Oh well, but an early shrine isn't that valuable, and improving the odds of a 2nd GE is more important.

ReallyEvilMuffin · September 16th, 2016, 17:04

(September 16th, 2016, 08:13)El Grillo Wrote: Wait, how is it even possible for Alhazard's team to not generate a GP by this point? PHI, even without Pacifism, should have have been enough, no? Are they deliberately forgoing Engineers for Citizens or something? :D

Nationalism within 15t sounds like a good estimate, so AP in BD makes sense. Not confident one way or another about whipping another Worker.

Lol didn't even think of this. That is probably the only reason, and the only way that would make sense I suppose is if they wanted a pure scientist perhaps to bulb edu? Still seems mental to me though... Other option I suppose is a misclick and forgetting to get merc, although since we have met them they have been in merc...

Nicolae Carpathia · September 16th, 2016, 17:54

There that should shoot us to the top of the score board.

Nicolae Carpathia · September 16th, 2016, 18:39

Nicolae Carpathia · September 16th, 2016, 23:07

Whoop whoop. Even nailed a religion spread!

All the moves have been made. There are two branch points: whether or not to switch to whipping a worker, and whether or not to work a grass farm next turn (and skip working iron for a single turn) and speed growth to size 4 and 5. Since we've decided to go for pop number, I lean towards this option.

It's also time to start thinking about what improvements to lay down along the river.

Time to start making contact with mackoti via the ice.

Nicolae Carpathia · September 17th, 2016, 02:46

Several paths in the microplan for the Tower/UU/BD region. There is a little less growth, but speeds the construction of the Monastery and the improvement of the 2nd banana

T206:
Tower whips 3 pops, works whales/corn/horses
BD builds monastery, works rice/pigs/iron
UU builds temple works deer
1 worker plants banana 1/3, 1 worker moves onto jungle banana

T207:
Tower builds worker, works whales/corn/horses
BD builds monastery, works rice/pigs/iron
UU builds temple works deer
1 worker plants banana 2/3, 1 worker roads jungle banana 1/2

T208:
Tower builds temple, works whales/corn/pigs
BD builds monastery, works rice/iron/deer/horses
UU builds temple works bananas
1 worker plants banana 3/3, 1 worker roads jungle banana 2/2

T209:
Tower builds temple, works whales/corn/pigs/furs
BD builds monastery, works rice/iron/deer/horses/grassfarm
UU builds temple works bananas
2 workers chop banana 2/3

T210:
Tower builds temple, works whales/corn/pigs/furs
BD builds research(?), works rice/iron/deer/horses/cottage
UU builds temple works bananas/unimproved bananas
1 worker chops bananas 3/3, 1 worker plants bananas 1/3

Nicolae Carpathia

With a poorly tech optimised sim, I managed to get nationalism to come in on T214. Which was earlier than expected. It does make me kind of wish we rolled the dice using the AP's GPPs.

But the problem with that method is it pollutes the pool (and a shrine isn't that useful). So instead, on the 1-2 turns before Nat comes in, we'll go hard in on scientists in BD, shave the GPP meter down to 1-2 turns remaining.

We're also planning going for farms everywhere and teching constitution next. Rep specialists should power our economy for the next several dozen turns, at least until replaceable parts and chemistry and electricity come in too boost the hammer economy.

ReallyEvilMuffin

T206: SWAP TO SERFDOM AFTER WHIPS BEFORE WORKER ACTIONS
Tower whips 3 pops settler, works whales/corn/horses
BD builds monastery, works rice/pigs/iron
UU builds temple works deer
SM whips worker works deer
worker ABE camp deer 9 of SM
worker C plant banana 1/3
worker D 7 cottage 1/3 then cancel
worker F (from banana city) 1 to jungle banana

T207:
Tower builds worker, works whales/corn/horses
BD builds monastery, works rice/pigs/iron
UU builds temple works deer
SM works deer builds wealth
worker ABE chop jungle deer 9 of SM
worker C plant banana 2/3
worker D 7 camp fur 1/3
worker F road 1/2
worker G (from SM) move to iron

T208:
Tower builds monastery, works whales/corn/pigs
BD builds monastery, works rice/iron/deer/horses
UU builds temple works bananas
SM works deer builds wealth
worker ABE camp deer 888 of BD
worker C plant banana 3/3
worker D 7 camp fur 2/3
worker F road 2/2
worker G mine iron 1/3
worker H from cap 7 cottage 1/3

T209:
Tower builds monastery, works whales/corn/pigs/fur
BD builds monastery, works rice/iron/deer/horses/grassfarm
UU builds temple works bananas
SM works deer builds wealth
New city built work deer/gforest build culture
worker A 6 to forest
worker B 36 to hill
worker C 31 to banana plant 1/6
worker D 7 camp fur 3/3
worker E 4 farm 1/3
worker F plant banana 2/6
worker G mine iron 2/3
worker H cottage 2/3

T210:
Tower builds monastery, works whales/corn/pigs/fur
BD builds wealth, works rice/deer/horses/cottage/cottage
UU builds temple works bananas/iron
SM works deer builds wealth
New city built work deer/gforest build culture
worker A chop forest 1/2
worker B mine hill 1/3
worker C plant banana 3/6
worker D 9 cottage 3/3
worker E 32 cottage 3/3
worker F plant banana 4/6
worker G mine iron 3/3
worker H 8 cottage 1/3

T211:
Tower builds monastery, works whales/corn/pigs/fur/horse
BD builds wealth, works rice/deer/iron/cottage/cottage/cottage
UU builds monastery works bananas/banana
SM works deer/irom builds culture
New city built work deer/clam build wb with chop
worker A chop forest 2/2
worker B mine hill 2/3
worker C plant banana 5/6
worker D 8 cottage 2/3
worker E 87 farm 2/3
worker F plant banana 6/6
worker G 23 farm 3/3
worker H cottage 3/3

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