[SPOILERS] naufragar and Rusten get nickel-and-dimed

[Rusten]

Glad to hear everything looks good. Cairo and SD ar neighbours indeed. For future reference I think the build is to get spear/axe in capital instead of the granary and keep the newly settled cities on development. But I realize that we had to change things up due to the immediate threat.

From a posting meta point of view all the other threads were quiet for a long time and suddenly had activity together with the lurker thread, so that also points towards us not being involved in whatever's happening.

Maybe I'll log in later to have a look at things, but does it make sense to put hammers into a worker while New Viron is unhappy? Less of a commitment than a settler and it works the same way as a settler in that the unhappy population is ignored. You don't pay for the extra 2 food. It doesn't need to be finished immediately.

[naufragar]

Yeah, I wonder 1) if anything actually is happening (I can almost guarantee Commodore's most recent lurker post is a reference to my similar paranoid misread in PB41, but I prefer not to make plays based on metagame lurker reads. ) 2) if the thing that's happening is between Mr. Cairo and Superdeath.

You're right that overall I should be producing units from the cap and letting the colonies grow on infrastructure. Gaon doesn't finish it's spear. It'll be at 5h invested next turn, so it can get to work on its granary. If MSCC shows up with a chariot, we don't actually have time to whip it, but I don't think that's a likely play from them. You wrote a bit back about the capital's need for a granary. It does have a huge food surplus now, but it's got at least one two pop whip (settler) in its immediate future and very soon it gives away its fish to our overseas city.

It might make sense to get in a few turns on a worker in New Viron while unhappy. If memory serves, the axe gets finished two turns before the settler, so it may be that there's wiggle room. Will probably be obvious if you log in. And yeah, we're desperate for worker labor. We need to cottage Gaon and chop a forge in Pajarocu. Our borders pop over the furs in something like 8 turns.

[Rusten]

All things considered we are doing well. We had a fairly poor starting BFC coupled with bad starting traits, but we're keeping up with everyone else. Maybe even pulling ahead somehow.

There's one eyesore from logging in though. We're not working the copper -- that's 100% a mistake. The tile is way too good to pass up. We're working a cottaged fp over it which is not nearly as good, but when you add in that the capital could be working the cottage instead it gets worse. Capital is working an unimproved fp tile. We're basically trading a 2F4H tile for a 3F1C tile. I didn't make any changes as you have a micro plan going, but I urge you to include the copper tile in the future.

[naufragar]

Does the floodplains get a growth in faster? Otherwise, you're absolutely right. That's on my part. And I guess even if the fp makes New Viron grow faster, now that we're missing our happy we don't want the faster growth.

I can't get to civ for a while and Cairo and SD might have played by then. If you can, please do change the tile and let the cap work the cottage. Sorry to put that on you. It doesn't change any relevant micro on my end because New Viron just builds the axe with natural production regardless.

[Rusten]

Tiles updated, NP. It doesn't grow any faster with the fp, and if it had been working the copper last turn we would actually get the axe out as it grew to size 3 avoiding any unhappiness altogether.
I also gave the capital the clam tile instead of New Viron due to pending unhappiness. So the change is clam --> bronze in New Viron and fp --> clam in capital.

[Rusten]

You've missed a possible warrior dance variation. Lizard doesn't need the garrison warrior until 2 turns from now, and the warrior sitting on the PH 2SE of Lizard gets there in time. Instead the Lizard warrior can move to New Viron and get there the same turn it grows to size 3. No longer need to delay the growth either, so New Viron can go back to working clam and grow in 2 turns rather than 3.

I've gone ahead and moved the capital warrior 1NE. Unhappiness thwarted.




edit: I also made an executive decision to change Pajarocu from PH-forest to fp as the tile is vastly better with a granary complete. I read your reasoning for working the tile but it doesn't really add up to me. The barracks isn't that urgent, and having a promotion for the spear isn't going to matter much. If we absolutely need the spear next turn we can whip it unpromoted. IMO just whip the barracks into a spear later instead. We finish a cottage I'd like to work there next turn. Whipping away that population point means missing a lot of commerce. If you strongly disagree you can change it back next turn, but I don't see why.

[naufragar]

That's wonderful news.

All things considered we are doing well. We had a fairly poor starting BFC coupled with bad starting traits, but we're keeping up with everyone else.

Last I checked demos we were solidly in the middle of the pack, which, given our traits, I think I'm fine with. My macro goals for the civ are these: 1) Settle overseas city. 2) Settle gems and horses. 3) Attack someone with samurai. Any thoughts? We're coming up on point number two. I imagine we go for the gems first. By the way, how would you dotmap for horses? I see a conservative plant and an aggressive one, but I'm kind of "meh" about both.

We haven't talked about samurai targets because we're still ~40 turns out from the invasion. My first thought is Superdeath. We're settling in his direction. His capital won't be too distant. I imagine we could pull off an interesting flank if we sail a galley down the coast. Obviously if in the next 40 turns, he rockets ahead and MSCC plummet, things change. But I've got "Superdeath" penciled in for my samurai mad lib space, which is why I'm leaning towards planting the gems city before horses, even though the horse city gets started quicker.

Thanks again for stepping in to right the ship.

Pseudo-edit: Saw your edit while previewing this. I see your point about the floodplains. That should be fine. By my completely uneducated guess we are 16 turns out from Metal Casting. It would be nice if the turn it comes in, we can start chopping the forests around Pajarocu for a forge, but it's probably better to solve that micro puzzle later and get the cottage and growth turns in now. I'm down for floodplains.

[Rusten]

Yeah, SD seems the best target right now. He's the only one nearby that doesn't have a natural counter to samurai. The hwacha exists, but we'd hopefully be the ones on the offensive, so they won't help him defend cities. We will also have some HAs mixed in to take them out. He's also an unreliable long-term neighbour compared to MSCC.

I agree with gems before horses. 1S of deer looks the most natural for rapid development. Possible Moai Statues city if we don't get it in New Viron. One of those two would surely build it. I think I prefer New Viron though as it reaches its full potential with ease through tile sharing. I guess the spot you're looking at is horses and deer in 2nd ring while settling next to the forests? I could be convinced depending on where MSCC's cities are, but I didn't really consider it until you said you had more than 1 spot in mind.

I'm in total alignment with the macro goals.

edit: will the galley be able to scout west of the overseas city? I really want more information. There could be more happiness over there.

[naufragar]

edit: will the galley be able to scout west of the overseas city? I really want more information. There could be more happiness over there.

With my usual caveat that I'm working from my poor feeble memory, the galley can move out 5 tiles before it needs to turn around, which isn't much scouting. That's if you're talking about scouting before settling. If you mean afterwards, it's high time we build a work boat. We could use it to scout and bring it back in time to improve a seafood resource.

Edit: I'm being dense. You meant scouting with the galley after it dropped off the settler. It certainly can, but it might be worth it to keep it around to ferry a worker overseas. There look to be, what, three forests? Which can be granary and barracks hammers.

[Rusten]

Yeah I was referring to after dropping off the settler. It's a much better job for a work boat, but if the galley is idle we could at least have a quick look.

Yes, chopping a barracks for quicker access to the 2nd ring seafood is crucial. I'd recommend doing that immediately -- send 1 worker with the settler. You still get 13 hammers from chopping a 2nd ring forest outside of culture I believe. Losing 7 hammers from chopping it early is nothing compared to what's gained by faster barracks+granary. Actually I strongly recommend dropping off a worker on the island before the settler is complete to start pre-chopping. Judging by what you said the galley is finished before the settler is available. This would make a massive difference in getting the city up to speed and contributing to samurai production later. Add worker builds elsewhere if necessary.