RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[Sockboy]

I wouldn't bother studying my earlier plans Ad Hoc, they're based on *not* roading the rice first

No worries Ad Hoc, I think Pegasus would have preferred if we didn't road it first, but I think it works out ok this way. I was more concerned that the worker hadn't stopped after I told it to! That would make micro very difficult if we can't properly control the worker actions.

Pegasus, I've had a look at your starts. I quite like them except for the chops into chariots. I think we should be saving them for settlers/workers or buildings. I'd much prefer to slave them out, since we've got decent amounts of food and they grow back. Anyway have a look at option C on the spreadsheet and see what you think.

We can get a chariot out on t46. We need to road the sheep as first action with both B and C, and get A and B onto the plainshill NW of our new site on turn 39, where they can road it t40. C joins them t40 and they all go over to get the horses connected by t42. On t42, the capital starts a chariot (it times naturally with the completed warrior) and once at size three works sheep and both mines. I've followed this out further (to the next settler/worker build which I time at turn 57). Getting the settler out in 2 turns and a worker in 1 proved quite challenging

So as to not waste a worker action we should send A SE and *partially* road next turn.

[ad hoc]

Well went in and moved Conan and Kull and it looks like Conan is in trouble



Demogs in usual place.

[Pegasus]

Well went in and moved Conan and Kull and it looks like Conan is in trouble

Somehow I don't think that Bear will run but heres hoping

SB , yes i completed thre road, thought that was the plan.

Don't worry about it. Main concern for me was getting the chop timed right for the 3rd worker. Many ways to do this. It looks like SB has managed a quicker way to Chariots with it roaded anyhow, which is good news.

I'm assuming the message to DIM will need another reitteration to it.

[Sockboy]

Lions and Lions and Bears... I guess Conan will get a chance to prove his strength. The way promotions work, can we get Conan to autopromote before the bear attacks?

Looks like there's lots of empty land if that many animals are roaming about. We may have to be careful once barbs start popping up (which I think is not all that far away). Does anyone know what turn barbs start appearing and when they start entering civ borders?

[Sockboy]

I think what I'll try and do is queue up a move for Conan, that'll give him a chance to move before the bear at least, exploring a bit of territory. I'll try and send him NW again, it's a forested square so he should be near 50/50 if something appears out of the wood (unless we find another bear!) Here's what I've done, note I have no idea if this is even possible, but I think it is.



I can't find out any information on enabling/disabling unit autopromotion in Pitboss, so we'll just have to hope he moves before the bear does unless some lucky lurker knows how to do this. Anyone?

[WarriorKnight]

I think what I'll try and do is queue up a move for Conan, that'll give him a chance to move before the bear at least, exploring a bit of territory.

No chance. The bear moves IBT while Conan moves at the beginning of the next turn. Unless someone else who has enabled unit animations gets attacked first, the only way we'll live is if they don't attack at all.

I went and canceled it because if the bear doesn't attack, we will probably want to heal instead.

I'm assuming the message to DIM will need another reitteration to it.

All we have to do is not mention anything about Conan meeting India.

Honorable triumvirate of DIM.

Conan ended last turn next to 2 lions but Conan was intimidating enough for one lion to run away and strong enough to defeat the other. Unfortunately, he had to move away from the intimidated lion for safety reasons and it seems that he has ended his turn next to a bear.

The reason why we wanted to know if Conan survived is whether he could contact India on behalf of our civilization. We also would like to make contact with them ASAP to try to get in the group. Unfortunetly, we can not safely contact them until about T53. Could you inform India of our civilization?

We have penciled in writing for hunting/masonry or hunting/poly. We accept your offer to be able to cancel the deal. It look like this isn't going to be the case though.

About the border agreement, we think that actually deciding city sites will be more likely to avoid tensions between our civilizations. Attached is our first dotmap of border sites in the area in question. Ignore the green/yellow dots since they are not located on the border in question. We have no desire to expand E or S of these sites. They are open to negotiations should you have any concerns about their location.

We appreciate the info on the Aztec's. In return, A Carthaginian warrior (Karen) appeared about 7 tiles south of our capital a few turn ago. We are unsure where they are now but it seems they are hanging around that area for now.

We acknowledge that you switch off EP's on us when you met India. We were meaning to do the same but forgot about it as it was late in the turn. We hope that you can forgive this error on our part.

Enough Talking!

WarriorKnight of A4.

I sent this to them, it has been long enough. I attached ad's dotmap since I haven't seen one without green/yellow. I also sent the message to Nice Shot.

[Sockboy]

Do the barbs get a separate turn to us then? Why can't we promote after battling a barb in that case? (i.e. if they move after us in turn order, then we start next turn with exp points and should be able to promote, if we move first then we should be able to escape? Instead we seem to be trapped without being able to use our promotion?)

I'm not upset, just mystified. I haven't played Civ MP before and don't really know how simultaneous turns work. I assumed that all automatic actions (including barb movement) take place immediately at the beginning of turns but is sounds like that's not the case here.

[WarriorKnight]

Do the barbs get a separate turn to us then? Why can't we promote after battling a barb in that case? (i.e. if they move after us in turn order, then we start next turn with exp points and should be able to promote, if we move first then we should be able to escape? Instead we seem to be trapped without being able to use our promotion?)

Normally the order goes:

Player 1 turn (moving units etc.)
Player 2 turn
...
Last player turn
Barbarian turn
End Turn

But with simultaneous turns, all of the non-barbarian players play simultaneously. So the lion attacked us last turn and we can't promote because it was just last turn.

Anyway, new message from Nice Shot:

Ahhhh Team DIM. Funny that the Ottoman leader winds up next to the Ottoman civilization, eh? I admit that I don't know much about DIM. Where are they relative to your Civ?

Regarding the question about peaks... we noticed a sort of passage between two mountain ranges to our west, and initially suspected it could have some significance. After further scouting, it doesn't seem important anymore. I guess Shoot the Moon and I will have to come up with a great name for it (like Banana Lake or Death Valley in PBEM1).

Our capital is located a few tiles S of where we first met.

Speaking of good faith exchanges between our peoples, we think this would be a prudent time to sign an NAP - we want to avoid poor Lobo.Thibron's fate! What do you think of an NAP to last through T65? We are just throwing a turn number out there, and would be happy to discuss lengthening the NAP as the game goes on, but we feel it is important to make our peaceful intentions clear right away. We also feel it would be mutually beneficial to give each other basic information about other teams we meet: who we have met, where we have met, etc, and would like to agree on an information sharing pact.

What do you think? We await your reply to our diplomatic proposals.

Mr. Nice Guy

Now this is interesting. A few thoughts.

We cannot tell them about where DIM is because our border agreement is supposed to be between us only.
We could start naming the lakes to our SE and the Peaks to our NE.
They are our southern neighbor. Now we just need to find out who is to our W.
I am not so certain about the information sharing pact. We (effectively) already have one with DIM and Nice Shot admitted that we are their only contact thus far. Maybe we could do it but keep the information we get from DIM a secret to them. I think that might be playing both sides too much though.
I am fine with a NAP until T65.

[Sockboy]

We cannot tell them about where DIM is because our border agreement is supposed to be between us only.
We could start naming the lakes to our SE and the Peaks to our NE.
They are our southern neighbor. Now we just need to find out who is to our W.

I don't see much harm in telling team Nice Shot that DIM are somewhere to our East, we can even say we haven't scouted too far in that direction but we saw their scout coming from over that way. All of that is true, if not completely open.

I thought we had India to our West, with Aztecs to the North and DIM to our East? Maybe I need to go reread the diplo messages

We also feel it would be mutually beneficial to give each other basic information about other teams we meet: who we have met, where we have met, etc, and would like to agree on an information sharing pact.

WRT info sharing I think something like what we originally had with DIM is a good way to start, just ask to keep in touch regarding any other civs. It's generally friendly and gets us info on who's around us. Maybe we can request a clarification on the info sharing pact before we agree to anything? Or just say that that level of cooperation is probably better further down the road once we're better acquainted?

The NAP has me a little concerned though, I was just checking what we knew about the various teams and saw their UU is the Numidian Cavalry which comes available with HBR. Turn 65 is probably a little early to be worried about them, but they'll be around by t80 I would guess. I don't want to reject it out of hand, but I'm not sure how to play this one, ideas?

Thanks for the info on simultaneous turns, I tried mucking about a bit on my home PC, but I think the AI always moves before the human there, so I always had a delay at the beginning of my turn. I couldn't tell if that's a standard pitboss thing or just an artifact from me being the last to end turn each turn. It's good to know at least one person here knows whats up If I can just get one more clarification, there is always a turn delay between earning exp points and using them for promotions? Is there any possible way to earn exp one turn and use it to promote the next? Better we clear this up now than during war time

[WarriorKnight]

I don't see much harm in telling team Nice Shot that DIM are somewhere to our East, we can even say we haven't scouted too far in that direction but we saw their scout coming from over that way. All of that is true, if not completely open.

You are right. We should say that we met their scout and assume that they are E.

I thought we had India to our West, with Aztecs to the North and DIM to our East? Maybe I need to go reread the diplo messages

In the last major DIM message, they said that India is NW. We assumed that they were W until DIM corrected us.

WRT info sharing I think something like what we originally had with DIM is a good way to start, just ask to keep in touch regarding any other civs. It's generally friendly and gets us info on who's around us. Maybe we can request a clarification on the info sharing pact before we agree to anything? Or just say that that level of cooperation is probably better further down the road once we're better acquainted?

Info sharing is fine. Only problem is that we will get some chariots out soon to scout everyone so they probably benefit more than us. A clarification would be good but they already gave some possible options. I wouldn't leave it until later since we are not giving or receiving much and that might lead to less friendly relations then we would like.

The NAP has me a little concerned though, I was just checking what we knew about the various teams and saw their UU is the Numidian Cavalry which comes available with HBR. Turn 65 is probably a little early to be worried about them, but they'll be around by t80 I would guess. I don't want to reject it out of hand, but I'm not sure how to play this one, ideas?

I doubt they will use the UU against us. They said that they are happy to extend it and were just throwing a number out there. Even if they plan to NC rush us, what are we going to do about it? Refuse a NAP because they will attack us?

Also their choice of traits is not exactly an early rush type. Of course, we need to make sure we have some decent defenses by then which we should have since it is a Huge map on Emperor so barbs will be terrible.

If I can just get one more clarification, there is always a turn delay between earning exp points and using them for promotions? Is there any possible way to earn exp one turn and use it to promote the next? Better we clear this up now than during war time

I honestly don't know.