Ranamar and Lewwyn, ministers for Bismarck of Mali

[SevenSpirits]

Let me clarify about wasted worker turns.

We don't need roads to these new cities. They are coastal, they'll be connected. The point of building the roads is a) so the workers have something to do while they move, and don't waste turns just moving two spaces and b) so that in the future we can save worker turns more easily due to increased movement.

If we are spending entire worker turns moving them towards places they can build roads, it's missing the point of making the roads in the first place.

[SevenSpirits]

Well I'm willing to give up a settler or a worker. Which does he prefer? I think goodwill is a big thing.

I agree. Also, he's been (and is offering to be) quite giving with us as it is. I think we can afford to to be giving in return. Also, when did the requrested price go up from a worker to a settler? (We'll certainly use all the workers we have right now, but I can't help thinking that we could easily afford to spare a worker at this point.)

Originally suggested price was a settler after we build great library, plus a luxury later. This was determined to be too expensive for us (the luxury > marble).

A later suggestion was... friendship+TBD.

A later suggestion was a worker (at an unspecified time), and a worker if we build GL and parthenon.

The final suggestion was a single worker in 15 turns. (t57)

This was after GES noted that he would be forced to settle the marble city earlier than he wanted, and use workers to hook up the marble. So he wanted more worker turn capability immediately.


GES suggested all of these. We only vetoed the luxury part of the first idea. I think his last offer is good for us. Since it was his idea (and his most recent one) I think we should go with it. The middle suggestions would be better for us, but this one's fine.

I just let him know that we accept. This means that on turn 52, we need to move a worker onto the jungle south of MT, so he can get into GES's borders in time.

We should also be nice to him in the future, especially if the marble ends up being really useful to us.

[Ranamar]

We currently have 6 workers. Currently, they're all bunched up around Barad-Dur, with a few of them strung out farther towards our eventual city sites. I guess that means... 2 west, 2 east, and 2 building cottages around the river? There were only two workers who didn't build something last turn, and one was moving onto a forest hill. (I did waste a worker turn the turn before, getting into position for one of those... )
Yeah, I think we can reasonably spare a worker. We could probably even reasonably spare two, if the second one is sometime in the future when we're more developed.

Also, it just occurred to me, I neglected to mention that Barad-Dur is currently at happy cap and will grow in one turn. Do we want to let it grow, or do we want to throw a settler or worker on to build now? IIRC, you said that unhappy citizens don't eat food when you're building settlers or workers, which leaves me inclined to say that we could afford to wait a turn on our next settler and then we should start it up next turn. When the whip unhappiness wears off, we'll already have regrown.

What would you have built while regrowing in MT?

[SevenSpirits]

We currently have 6 workers. Currently, they're all bunched up around Barad-Dur, with a few of them strung out farther towards our eventual city sites. I guess that means... 2 west, 2 east, and 2 building cottages around the river?

Not sure what is best without knowing where they are and what roads we have build/half built. We don't need more cottages right now though.

Also, it just occurred to me, I neglected to mention that Barad-Dur is currently at happy cap and will grow in one turn. Do we want to let it grow, or do we want to throw a settler or worker on to build now?

Hm. Again, would need to know what the situation is to really make a good decision, but surely we can loan the corn to Osgiliath and work mines to finish the library ASAP? Don't really want to start anything else until the lib is done.

What would you have built while regrowing in MT?

Probably a workboat for the eastern city. Alternately, a lighthouse since MT has two food resources and no access to grass river cottages. Alternately, a turn into a worker to make good use of the overflow.

[SevenSpirits]

Played t45.

We lost a few worker turns but the priority now is to get both pigs improved ASAP. Here's Dale, newly founded:



Two workers will complete the road on the hill next turn, while a third rushes past them and starts the pasture. T47, one roading worker joins him to finish the pasture, the other starts mine on the forest hill. T48 the two workers on the pigs move to the forest hill and join in the mining. T49 one worker finishes the mine and will then head back home; the other two workers road 1N of Dale and are in position to build the corn farm when the borders pop EOT.

To found next turn: Grey Havens. (Or a different name.)



I'm actually thinking we should found where the settler is right now. It loses only a single jungled grassland, and gains an unjungled one in the south. It's closer. It gets the pig hooked faster by destroying the jungle. It's only adjaced to one water tile, so it's guardable from naval assault. And it shares some tiles with Edoras instead of having more crappy coast/ocean tiles. It also will have marginally less distance maintenance. Sound good?

The micro here is simpler. The workers finish the roads (already queued up). Then the two workers go on to improve Grey Havens and the third guy heads back to do other stuff.



I started a Barracks here for us to build for 2 turns while growing back. We will grow one size each turn (one already done) and be back at size 5 exactly when the whip anger runs out. There's no hurry to get a barracks but it's better than other buildings here, and we do want to get one barracks sooner or later. And more units right now would mean more maintenance.



It's sad we didn't work a mine here last turn, we could have the library this turn and our GP one turn sooner. But oh well, this is fine. Library in 2 and we should click "avoid growth" but work the same tiles. No food will be wasted (it's exactly enough to grow) and then we'll grow on the following turn which is when the whip anger disappears. As soon as we have the library we want to work scientists. This will result in quickly acquiring a prophet or scientist, either of which is fantastic.

I also finished research on Polytheism so we can work on something useful when growing here in the future, namely ToA.



Minas Tirith grows on each of the next two turns, reaching size 5 right when the whip anger runs out. Yay! I started a workboat because even if we produce one out of Dale, it will be good to have a standing army of one workboat for the stone site.



Here is our scouting:




I think we will get circumnav! Another player would, I believe, need to enter our lands to get it. (Same goes for us and Hattie... hope that works out.) Note that in the picture of dale we can see Hattie's borders.


Oh, edit: I think we want to go 100% gold next turn. Just one more turn of gathering gold...

[Ranamar]

Happy birthday to me.
:2dance:
Well, actually, more like

I mentioned it to Seven directly, but, well, I don't expect to be able to get the turn tonight, due to celebrations.

[Lewwyn]

Happy Birthday!

[SevenSpirits]

Happy birthday.

I played the turn in between being massively busy, so didn't take pics. But it was basically just following the instructions from last turn anyway, really straightforward.

Next turn we can turn science back up and also hire two scientists!

I forgot to adjust our espionage spending. We should spend it all on one person. (Yuris for now.)

EDIT:

Important city micro note for next turn:
* Turn off the avoid growth governor button in the capital
* Set the capital to build a worker
* Give the sheep to Minas Tirith. (It's size 4.)
* Work FP, Cow, Mine, Mine, Scientist = zero food surplus.

This will avoid the bug where we lose two food-production when growing while building a worker/settler.

On future turns we can be less precise in our micro. Note that to get the fastest possible GP though, we should work two scientists for two of the next for turns, and one scientist for the other two. (Stonehenge is always on. Two turns of 5gpp + two turns of 8gpp give 26gpp. We only need another 25 more to make the great person.)

The above micro advice spends one of those only-one-scientist turns now, to be able to get zero food in an efficient manner.

[Lewwyn]

Played save.

Followed the micro above and turned Science to 100%. Finished pig pasture by Dale and started a mine on the forested hill. Move Bilbo and Drogo there to help with the mining next turn. Chop will go straight into the granary.

2 turns into the pig pasture at Grey havens. I moved Frodo 1 north on the road and put 1turn into a mine on the grasshill. I stopped him then. He can either keep mining or next turn move to the pigs and road or move to one of the forests and chop. I'm recommending he finish the mine so that Grey Havens has another improved tile to work once it grows quickly after the pig is pastured next turn.

BD is microed according to the above.

MT is going to grow in 1 turn again. I recommend letting it grow next turn, then switch to the library that's in queue and 3 pop whip it from 6 pop. Though you probably already knew that.

Osiligath grew at end of turn. I had switched the build to a library so next turn 3 pop whip it. The city will regrow faster than a speeding bullet...

Pic dump:

[SevenSpirits]

What's the purpose of a library in Osgiliath? It's a bad enough build in MT! An Osgiliath library will be worth literally a buck or less a turn. And the specialist slots are useless and the culture is unnecessary. Why would we want to spend 60 hammers (a settler!) on a buck a turn?