[PB78] Underdogs and undercats: The Mrrshan warlords visit the world of Civ IV

[thrawn]

A few questions.

For scooter:

- Is the ivory forested and is its yield 1f3h? Looks like 1f2h but maybe the third hammer is under the resource icon.
- Is the lake next to it forested?? It shows 2f1h2c. If I do a sim in worldbuilder will it be possible to put a forest there normally or will some mod be needed?
- What will the tech costs be at T0 with the chosen settings? For example Agri has a base of 40, will it be 55 or how much exactly?

For anyone:

- Does monarch mean the capital will start with 5 happy and 8 health (assuming forest on the ivory or lake for +4 from forests)?
- Does the SW road on the hill connect to the river for trade routes or will another road be needed on one of the plains?
- Will the pig need to be roaded to connect to the capital or is the river sufficient?

Overall it looks like a pretty normal start - rivers, forests, resources. I was expecting something whacky right out of the gate.

[scooter]

- Is the ivory forested and is its yield 1f3h? Looks like 1f2h but maybe the third hammer is under the resource icon.

Yes it is forested, apologies that the resource bubble makes it unclear. 1f3h is the default yield of a plains forest ivory pre-improvements, so that's what it is.

- Is the lake next to it forested?? It shows 2f1h2c. If I do a sim in worldbuilder will it be possible to put a forest there normally or will some mod be needed?

Yes it is forested, and the visible yield is accurate. You do not need a mod to replicate it.

- What will the tech costs be at T0 with the chosen settings? For example Agri has a base of 40, will it be 55 or how much exactly?

I don't know off the top of my head what it works out to, but if you start a game with CtH and select Monarch + Small (any script), your costs should match what this game will be. Mod is available here called "PB74" but is equivalent to CtH 5.0: https://civ.zulan.net/pbspy/game/147/

[RefSteel]

Good seeing you around again! Just correcting a probably-typo: A plains forest ivory is indeed 1f/3h unimproved: 1f/1h for the plains tile, +1h for the ivory, +1h for the forest. The basic worldbuilder will indeed let you put a forest on a lake, elephant, etc. but there are a few things to watch out for:

- Frequently, when you add a resource (like Ivory) in worldbuilder, the icons for the tile yield won't update in the Worldbuilder view itself (e.g. the forest ivory would show 1/2) but then will show correctly when you exit worldbuilder and see the tile in the game.

- There are three ways to add a water tile in WB, all of them (like adding forests) under the "terrain" tab of the terrain-editing menu (whereas e.g. ivory can be added or removed using the "bonus" tab) - but each does something different. The "Coast" button near the top will add coast tiles (navigable by galleys, 1f/2c base, or 2f/2c if (part of) a "lake" - meaning a body of water with fewer than 10 tiles) even if placed in the middle of the ocean; the "Ocean" tile right next to it will add ocean tiles (navigable only by later ships or those belonging to a civ which culturally controls the tile, 1f/1c base, or 2f/1c as (part of) a "lake". The third option, on the Peak/Hill/Grass/Water row, intelligently assigns the "correct" type of water tile - coast when touching a land tile, ocean otherwise. It's best to always use the latter unless specifically and intentionally placing a normally-illegal tile somewhere like an ocean as an obstacle along the coast.

And on the questions for anyone, not actually in order:

- Per Scooter's post about tiles outside the BFC, the SW road might not exist (and neither might those river plains) - but if the layout is as shown, the road does not connect to the river without another road on either plains tile. It would connect if that were a river bend (i.e. if the river started one tile west of where it does, and flowed to the headwaters actually shown before turning North) or if the river were flowing to that tile into a body of water (e.g. a road on the incense would connect to the river if the layout is as shown) but roads don't connect to headwaters directly.

- The pig will be connected to the capital (via the river) once improved, with or without a road.

- 5 Happy / 8 Health at the capital sounds right, but I haven't memorized these, and I'd suggest testing it to be sure.

[thrawn]

Thanks Ref, very informative! I just with I had you as a dedlurker

[williams482]

This seems like a game best followed as a dedlurker (I wonder what whacky stuff is out there in the fog?), and this thread seems like a good place to do that. So hello again, person-not-to-be-explicitly-named!

[scooter]

Good seeing you around again! Just correcting a probably-typo: A plains forest ivory is indeed 1f/3h unimproved:

Oh my, yeah very unfortunate typo on my part. Thanks for catching this - have fixed post.

[thrawn]

Great that you'll be joining us Will! It should be fun to work out the mysteries of the map and unlike me or Ljub, you have actually played this game, right?

[williams482]

Yes, I have played a lot of base BTS (although no CTH).

[thrawn]

I've been noting my thoughts on what we can expect from the map based on what scooter has given us if you guys want to consider it independently before we discuss. Williams, your guesses about PBEM 19 were significantly better than mine so I'm curious what you think here

[thrawn]

I'd like to say that the start feels great. Between the forested lake and the third tech there were many ways to open, far more than would have been available otherwise. Scooter's definitely onto something.