Fire Giant

[Warped Wood]

I don't think fantastic units casting spell from other realm is possible at this point, they lock to cast spell only to their own realm. So Dispeling Wave or Blur cast by Fire Giant is not possible.

That makes sense, although I suppose Seravy would be the one person who could make it happen.

If the Fire Giant is restricted to Chaos spells then perhaps 10 casting skill would be roughly equivalent to a Fire Ball charge. Fire Balls are more expensive, but the 10 castings skill would allow a wide range of cheap Chaos spells. It would also strongly synergise with Sorcery when Focus Magic automatically unlocks more powerful spells like Mystic Surge and Lightning Bolt.

[Seravy]

I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying that baking Resist Elements into summons is specifically a Sorcery nerf, as Sorcery obviously depends far more on magical attacks than other schools. This would be fine if it were your intention to nerf Sorcery, but my understanding is that you want to make Fire Giants more desirable to Sorcery wizards.

Oopps, I manage to forget Sorcery in that list, I intended to list all 5 realms, my mistake.
Sorcery can deal with Fire Giants using Confusion and Vertigo fairly easily. AEther Sparks can also reduce their 3 ammo to 1. I'm also not quite sure what unit in Sorcery depends on magic ranged attacks in the early tiers? Nagas don't. Water Elementals somewhat do but it's a single figure with high hit chance, resist element doesn't do much against it. Magicians are a dead unit against a fire giant either way thanks to the Fireball spell.
I guess if you Focus Magic a durable bow unit like Rangers or some heroes, that would be weak against Fire Giant and isn't already but that's all I can think of.

Anyway, yes, I don't want to nerf Sorcery, I do want to make Chaos and Sorcery play better together in the early game, and I don't mind a small buff to Chaos early game as a side effect, as long as it's not too large.
Fire Giants, while a solid universal purpose summon, are still the weakest of the three uncommons, gargoyles offer much higher survivability to enable spellcasting while chimeras have way higher raw power. I don't remember ever feeling that I need Fire Giants instead when playing. They are okay, but the other two offer so much more. I guess the Giants are the most cost effective though, as long as the enemy can't target their resistance to instantly kill them.

That said, buffing Fire Giants is not the goal, the goal is to create synergy between any Chaos and Sorcery spell(s). If Water Elementals and Giants can be made less similar as a side effect that's a nice extra benefit but it's also not the main purpose.

This will allow Fire Giants to cast very cheap spells across any realms the wizard knows,

Unfortunately not. Fantastic Creatures can only cast spells within their own realm. Only normal units can cast from the player's spellbook (magicians and heroes).
However...if we give the Giant 15 casting skill then it's functionally similar for Chaos (still casts Fireball) but with Focus Magic they gain access to Warp Lightning.
This would however enable the Giant to cast Animate Ammo which is probably even stronger than Resist Elements, just against bows, not magical ranged. It would also enable Shatter and Warp Creature and Breakthrough and Fire Elemental so overall I think it's a way too large buff.

[Seravy]

If we don't add Resist Elements to Fire Giants, this is where we're at :
   

I do feel there really should be at least one more spell or pair of spells in the "high synergy" category, but it doesn't really matter which one, it can be anything other than Fire Giant if we can come up with a good idea.

Btw...how good is Vertigo with Fate Mastery? Is it good enough to be worth putting in the high synergy category? It's a -4 save spell rolled twice, low cost, and disables almost any unit to an extent where it's mostly harmless.
The only problem is the number of turns it takes to cast enough of them to disable large armies.

Added the "no change" option and reset the votes on the poll.

[Anskiy]

Btw...how good is Vertigo with Fate Mastery? Is it good enough to be worth putting in the high synergy category? It's a -4 save spell rolled twice, low cost, and disables almost any unit to an extent where it's mostly harmless.
The only problem is the number of turns it takes to cast enough of them to disable large armies.

Well...problem is both spells are Uncommon tier, and having to rely on two or more Uncommons is not great synergy. In fact, those spells typically come so late in a Chaos/Sorcery combo that they barely affect anything.

Also, the poll doesn't let me recast my vote.

[Seravy]

Also, the poll doesn't let me recast my vote.

Ouch, ok, I tried enabling multiple choice, maybe that helps. I don't see a specific option to reset who voted and editing the result to zero apparently doesn't do that.
If that doesn't help either, I guess I'll post another poll or idk.
I'm leaning towards not changing Fire Giants already, kind of, I just don't have any better idea and feel something should still be done to make the realms play better together.

...maybe the next poll should be about whether Chaos/Sorcery even needs more synergy?
Perhaps what we did so far is enough?
Maybe I'm looking at it wrong and there are more synergies than what's in the spreadsheet?

[Seravy]

New poll is up, so closing this one.
https://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/show...?tid=11232