Potluck Start Comparisons

[Qwack]

I ranked this in my report also, but to me Sitting Bull and Khmer had the best starts in the game. Sitting Bull, after taking over Zara Yaqob would have 15 cities and chokepoints, if he doesn't take over Zara Yaqob he still has 9 easy cities with amazing land. Khmer is creative and alot of good land to expand to.

After that, I would say Willem Van Oranje, Zara Yaqob, Justinian and Hammurabi.. Pacal and Joao easily had the worst starts in the game, as they would get trapped in. In Joao's situation, if he took over hammurabi he would have to deal with creative Suryavarman.

Zara's capital was pretty weak in general, after the first 2000 years where you can pump out a couple of quick wonders, but he had the ability to take over Sitting Bull. But if you want to say peacefully grabbed cities, Zara would be ranked right at the bottom in 6th place.

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Zara's capital was pretty weak in general, after the first 2000 years where you can pump out a couple of quick wonders, but he had the ability to take over Sitting Bull. But if you want to say peacefully grabbed cities, Zara would be ranked right at the bottom in 6th place.

My impression from reviewing the reports is that the AI leveraged the Ethiopian start better than the American. I'm not sure that actually means anything.

[Sullla]

So was everyone largely pleased with the starting positions in this Potluck game? I actually left most of them relatively alone, aside from the ones that were outright moved (Dutch, Byzantines, Mayans). Other than those three, the others simply had a food bonus added or subtracted to more or less equalize the positions.

I was surprised that several comments stated that the Native American start was bad. Cows, three floodplains, an oasis, and many river tiles isn't a good start? I mean, if I added another food bonus there, it would have been by far the strongest position on the map. My thought was that the extra land in the west more than compensated for any supposed defects in the start.

[Kodii]

Well, I had the Dutch, so I was pleased with our starting position. Being financial with all those floodplains was simply delightful.

I did find some of the other starting positions skeptical though, like the Mayan and Byzantine starts, both of which I conquered.

[Qwack]

The mayan start position was slightly messed up Sullla. I think a fresh water and a river would have done nicely for Pacal in this game.

[blid]

The mayan start position was slightly messed up Sullla. I think a fresh water and a river would have done nicely for Pacal in this game.

I would concur. Fresh water, if not a river would have been nice. And at least one forest to work early on. Mayans were forced to play water game type but financial helped leverage the land

[LKendter]

The Native Americans had the best surrounding land, followed by the Ethiopians and then Khmer

I agree 100% with this. Merging these lands together is why my Ethiopians had a cakewalk game. I even put the HE in a former NA city. With the NA gone I added several more nice spots before I had to even consider another war.

[uberfish]

So was everyone largely pleased with the starting positions in this Potluck game? I actually left most of them relatively alone, aside from the ones that were outright moved (Dutch, Byzantines, Mayans). Other than those three, the others simply had a food bonus added or subtracted to more or less equalize the positions.

For balanced positions, all of them need to have forest and fresh water because the map generator would normally place those. It's not really a big deal if some positions are better than others though.

[Sullla]

The mayan start position was slightly messed up Sullla. I think a fresh water and a river would have done nicely for Pacal in this game.

I would concur. Fresh water, if not a river would have been nice. And at least one forest to work early on. Mayans were forced to play water game type but financial helped leverage the land

Umm... the Mayans had THREE food bonuses, plus copper! That's not good enough?! Man, some of you must have some crazy expectations for a starting position!

Seriously though, the goal of this scenario is not to give everyone exactly equal starts. I felt that the Mayans had more than enough on hand to be competitve in this game. I certainly am NOT about to add rivers and fresh water to every map when they aren't present. Part of this game is learning how to deal with starts that aren't perfect. The Mayan start wasn't even bad - it had the potential to be a shield powerhouse!

I guess I'm a little tired of seeing every Hall of Fame and Succession Game at CivFanatics beginning with luxuriant starts dripping with resources left and right. If it weren't for scenario design, I'd just roll a single start for each game and go with that - take whatever the map gives you. All of the starts in Epic 13 were at least average, and most of them were considerably above average. Maybe if players are used to rolling starts until they get something exceptional, then the Epic 13 ones look bad by comparison... I dunno. If anything, I've probably been too lenient with the starts in recent games, adding food bonuses and the like. Don't be surprised if some of the future games have average or subpar starting locations.

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Don't be surprised if some of the future games have average or subpar starting locations.

Woohoo! Bride of Frozen Jungle!