Adventure 23 (First Report)

[pawelo]

It was a perfect lunch time @work reading Muaziz ( well, though it went a little bit after the lunch time ).

I think I'll advise the read of your report just after Sullla's walkthrough to the people wanting to understand the game and know just the basics. The detailed thinking process and deduction make this report a gold mine for everyone trying to get the best out of our computer nation

Thanks a lot for such a fine reading. Looking forward to your adventure 24 and epic 14!

[LKendter]

Normal depend on machines. A lot of us read forums at work, where the PC tend to be low for graphics. The machine I am reading from has a max of 1024x768. My laptop and desktop aren't much higher as the really large size screen don't agree with my eyes.

[Muaziz]

Since more and more people here, including me, are shifting towards the big picture reports, I'm glad there are still people left who write detailed reports.

One of the things that has really helped me understand the game better is reading all the game reports. Understanding both the general strategy as well as the nitty-gritty underlying game mechanics.

You're right normally, but as can be seen by sooooo and others, some games are just not meant to last long enough so that the long-term effects outweigh the short-term benefits of settling on the stone.

When I made my initial settling decision, I didn't know that a Plains Hill was +1 hammer, and I didn't know that the Stone would be another +1 hammer. That being said, I probably would have settled where I did anyways since I had no idea the game would go so quickly.

I'm currently replaying the game using Sooooo's approach (although I researched AH first) just to see how it plays out. It is certainly very different from the game that I played!

As a rule of thumb, if I can afford 40% research or more, I consider my economy strong enough for capturing or building more cities. Of course that all depends on the terrain of the city in question, the long-term financial growth potential of my lands, which economic techs I will research soon and other things, but that is usually my first guide.

I had been using 60% as my rule of thumb and thus had been a lot more conservative. As Atlas pointed out, building Wealth is something that can really help with the economy that hadn't really occurred to me.

What many people forget IMHO is that not everybody has his/her browser window at full size. I run a screen resolution of 1600x1200 pixels, but when I'm reading, my Firefox uses only about half the width of my screen. The reason is that this way, I can read text lines without having to move my head and that my eyes have to move only very little as well. This is a lot less tiring than reading a paragraph which runs along the whole screen width.

That's a really good point. For future reports, I'll make sure I resize everything to no more than 800x600 as Ruff_Hi suggested.

It was great to see the thought processes that went into making the decisions - found that made for a fascinating read. Thank you very much for that!

Glad you enjoyed it! I got the inspiration from all of the great report writers on this site.

Thanks a lot for such a fine reading. Looking forward to your adventure 24 and epic 14!

I'm in the process of writing both of them up now. The problem with being an addict is that I now have a long time to wait until the next new Adventure and Epic. On the bright side, there's a lot of older Adventures and Epics that I can play and compare.

[Atlas]

Whipping.... ah treatises could be written on it. Why is that you may ask? Because it is soooooo variable, in some situations it will clearly be the best thing to do. In others a wash and still in others it would be a mistake.

if I am working only quality tiles, and I am at the happiness cap, I probably don't whip when I should.

In this situation the key question is- What stage of the game are you at and what are these "quality" tiles? In the early game whip that city since a grassland cottage is not doing much for you. Same for any other tile improvement with the exception of other food generating tiles, gold/silver/gems, and metal bearing tiles. These are VERY high quality tiles that you never want to stop working. Cottages and regular mines don't have to be worked. Always whip when working unimproved tiles and "weakly" improved tiles.

Here is my general rule- If it is before AD times it is generally ok to whip very aggressively (doesn't matter if you are whipping units or infrastructure). If you want to you can whip til you are working just the food tiles. In post AD times you will want to grow and more important acquire some tech (commerce, great people, extortion etc.), but before that don't worry. Any newly founded city (with decent food) in any era is going to need a granary whipped into it and probably a barracks and library too.

With Whipping general you want to avoid 1 pop. whips. However in the early game you should probably use some 1 pop. whips to generate units since units are cheap there it generally only takes one pop. to finish them. So most of the time you will want to put one turn of prod. into a unit then whip on the 2nd. Let the overflow go to a unit on the 3rd turn and go from there. To whip on any build on the first turn you pay 1 extra pop. So whipping an axe from turn 1 cost 2 pop., if you do it on turn 2 it only costs one pop.

Pay close attention to how your cities grow, I find that size 4 is very nice for whipping lots of stuff since it gives me the ability to whip 2 pop. (you can only whip away half or less of your pop. on a single whip), but it does not take long to grow to size 4 with a decent food tile or two.

[Muaziz]

This is the Whip post that I have read many times and used as a guideline. I generally follow the guidelines that you have spelled out, but it's the special case scenarios that are hard to work out.

With Granaries, I really try to chop for them if I can and not whip until I've built up a little food supply to re-grow faster. But that's not always an option.

Like you said, there are soooo many variables. No offense to Sooooo

[Atlas]

This is the Whip post that I have read many times and used as a guideline.

VoU writes excellent articles, I have read them all.

With Granaries, I really try to chop for them if I can and not whip until I've built up a little food supply to re-grow faster. But that's not always an option.

It is no doubt a matter of taste but I prefer whipping the granary and chopping wonders/units. Here is my reasoning, the food bank sets itself to a lower level for the lower population when you whip, thus you don't have to worry about filling the "food bank" when you whip it, it starts full. If you chop it then you should chop to finish it when it is full.

[sooooo]

In this situation the key question is- What stage of the game are you at and what are these "quality" tiles? In the early game whip that city since a grassland cottage is not doing much for you. Same for any other tile improvement with the exception of other food generating tiles, gold/silver/gems, and metal bearing tiles. These are VERY high quality tiles that you never want to stop working. Cottages and regular mines don't have to be worked. Always whip when working unimproved tiles and "weakly" improved tiles.

Whut? If you don't work your cottages, they never turn into hamlets, villages or towns. I don't think it's sound advise to say whip when you are working immature cottages. I'll often even turn on the "avoid growth" button so as to work and mature the maximum number of cottages if at the happy cap. Normally only when my population grows above the number of cottages the city has and goes onto forest or mine tiles will I whip if I feel the need to whip.

[Atlas]

Whut? If you don't work your cottages, they never turn into hamlets, villages or towns. I don't think it's sound advise to say whip when you are working immature cottages.

Well, it all depends, but if I have a city with 2 food tiles or one strong food tile (pigs, or irrigated corn) then I will work that and just whip away citizens til I have the troops/buildings that I want from that city regardless of the improvements that are on the other tiles. When I have what I want from that city in those terms then I will work those cottages.

Normally only when my population grows above the number of cottages the city has and goes onto forest or mine tiles will I whip if I feel the need to whip.

Do you not whip citizens that are working cottages? I mean you almost always have more tile improvements that citizens to work them and I will whip them all. If you did not you would hardly whip at small city sizes at all.

[Muaziz]

VoU writes excellent articles, I have read them all.

Very true. I have to admit that I have been very impressed by the quality of most of the writing I have seen on this site and civfanatics. It is really a pleasure reading well thought out posts and articles, and I have learned a great deal from the Civ community (I almost wrote WoW community... yikes... old habits die hard).

It is no doubt a matter of taste but I prefer whipping the granary and chopping wonders/units. Here is my reasoning, the food bank sets itself to a lower level for the lower population when you whip, thus you don't have to worry about filling the "food bank" when you whip it, it starts full. If you chop it then you should chop to finish it when it is full.

I am very confused about your comment that "when you whip it, it starts full". I thought that Granaries started on empty and gained food every turn equal to the amount of that city's food surplus. In addition to that, it is capped at 1/2 the food required to grow to the next size.

[Atlas]

I am very confused about your comment that "when you whip it, it starts full". I thought that Granaries started on empty and gained food every turn equal to the amount of that city's food surplus. In addition to that, it is capped at 1/2 the food required to grow to the next size.

Watch-