An amicable parting of the ways.......

[Zed-F]

I don't get it. Everything seemed OK a couple days ago. What happened to spur the mass exodus from the guild?

A half-dozen or so of the most active players collectively decided they'd had enough and organized a plan to move elsewhere together. Word of mouth spread about this and most of the active players inclined to ignore drama (such as Vort and myself) wound up having to make a choice to either stay in RB or follow the people they most frequently game with. Most chose the latter.

I don't think there was any one thing that happened to encourage the group of active members to go, it was more of a straw that broke the camel's back kind of deal.

As far as scattering goes, that isn't what happened here. In fact, the people that left have all found a new home together amongst a much larger group of players than RBGW ever was, so it's more a movement en-masse to a new home for GW.

Otherwise, I'll pretty much echo Vort's comments about keeping in touch with RB, replacing Mount & Blade with Champions Online for the next few months.

[KingOfPain]

If one or two people are a source of widespread grievance, much better to toss them than to scatter whatever organization previously existed.

Agreed, but that's not the way RB works as far as I have seen

And no one sees the problematic logistic behind this? Since some people have problems seeing both sides of situations, lets pretend for a moment Hawkmoon is the (guilty, whatever that means) offender and we kick her. Assuming we are talking about friction between older RBers. Wouldn't we still end up with a shattered guild? Yes, even Hitler have friends and fans.

No, I don't have a solution, and like Doc, I could only hope

[Courin]

One of the key messages I tried to illustrate with the guidelines was that all member of RBGW are equal, and as such, are equally entitled to their own opinions and perspectives. As KoP noted, there is always more than one side to a story. There are usually at LEAST as many sides as there are people involved in or aware of a 'situation'. What is crucial to making a system like this work is respect.

Each member needs to respect the other member's rights to their opinions. Each member needs to respect the others in terms of the language, tone, and methods used to dicuss said differences of opinion. And each member needs to respect that sometimes the majority of the other members will share similiar points of view as they do, and sometimes the majority will not, and that ultimately, we must operate on a concensus type model.

Doc suggested that it would be better to 'toss.......a source of widespread greivance' than to 'scatter' the rest of the organization. But because there is more than one side to every situation, until recently, the challenge was how to decide who that source was. Should it be up to the discretion of the Guild Leader? RBGW was never intended as a tyranny, but instead functions as an informal democracy. Wyrm said quite clearly that he felt it was beyond his remit as Guild Leader to arbitrarily kick a member that was perceived to be 'a source of widespread greivance', that it was 'not his guild' to make those decisions by himself.

So instead, the guild adopted, as a trial, a set of guidelines that laid out was was acceptable behaviour and what was not, and would allow us to deal fairly and respectfully with situations where the behaviour of a member lessened the enjoyment of the game by other members. We set up the Peer Review Council with the intention of having them listen to all sides of a situation and decide, on behalf of the rest of the guild members, the best course of action for the guild.

Speaking for myself, there were situations that negatively affected my enjoyment of the game. I tried to discuss them with the individuals involved, but got nowhere. I COULD have brought it forward to the Peer Review Council. That MIGHT have resulted in members being asked to leave the guild if it was decided that was the best solution for the guild.

But I realized that even though I wrote those guidelines, and came up with the process, I never wanted to have to use them. I want to be in a guild where people take personal responsibility for how they treat each other. This is a game.....I shouldn't have to fight to have fun.

So I think that those who chose to leave for reasons similar to my own WERE seeing both sides. They recognized that people have the right to have their opinions of what respect entails. And they also recognized that, as people who had very different opinions on that topic, they had a choice.....go through the process of trying to determine if the majority of the guild felt as they do (i.e. that a certain behaviour is 'disrespectful' and so not acceptable in our society) or they could remove themselves from that source. And since the point of playing the game is to have fun, and fighting for the ability to have fun seems pointless, they excercised the latter option.

As for attempts at reconciliation.......I will say again that NUMEROUS attempts were made over that last few months to do exactly that. I know you weren't around much to see them, but they were there, and unfortunately failed. To leave RBGW was not a decision I made lightly. So Doc, please respect that for some people it is too late.

[Hawkmoon]

I've not had much time over the past week to even think about gaming, much less log on. But, now that I do, I've also got to take the step that most of our active members have already done - namely, leave RBGW to follow most of my online friends that I game with regularly.

I've tried to mostly avoid the drama, I've got a fairly thick skin, and I try to let most stuff roll off my back, and I probably could have continued to do so. But, I completely understand the decision of many members who've taken off before me. I had read this essay several months back, and I think it's also relevant to the situation here, for those who don't understand it. (good blog on martial arts, which as most of you know I'm into).

I leave the guild, but not the RB community. And it's with a heavy heart that I do so. But I think it's the right thing for me.

I'm going to designate KoP as Guild Leader again, since he was GL before me, way back when.

Hawkmoon

[KingOfPain]

You shouldn't have designated me as GL, as I was only back playing a bit from watching too much GW2 promotes; and I am done with the game now that I have those little achievements wrapped up.

Besides, I was going to suggest we dissolve the guild, and send everyone who are still playing to AB. I wouldn't mind seeing this guild disappear from the face of the earth instead of a shameful reminder of this dark age. So, without further ado

RBGW will leave the alliance within minutes after this post.
Next week this time, RBGW will no longer exists. (notice also posted in game)

UPDATE: We have left the alliance in good terms. Many of the ally guilds sent out invites to anyone who may choose to remain in the alliance to join their guild.

[Sylva Firewind]

I guess I will be a voice of minority to state it seems a shame that the only solution to the differences in personalities within the guild, even after the recent exodus, is to disband.

I would think there was someone who could carry the torch and see what path the guild can take while some of the remaining members focus on other things for a bit. Quite sad that such an established guild is going to just call it quits with such permanency.

Heck I would be glad to offer what I could to keep it going. problem being my soon transfer back to Japan and intermittent access during the next six months; due to this and deployments on ship. It feels like the decision has already been made regardless. I will miss the guild and expect not to join another anytime soon.

-ronin for hire
est availability 1 week from now :heal:

[MrBozack]

I was quite sad to see the "parting" of ways, but now I consider it beneficial to me. Allow me the pleasure of fully explaining.

I hadn't been in RB long, but it was an okay Guild, I suppose. It seemed easy going at first and of course the cape ruled.

After being there for a few weeks it became very apparent that I never really "belonged" there. I was only a member, but I made up party sizes on several occasions. I mostly just did "my own thing".

Sadly, I'm not very thrilled at the prospect of participating in any further RB ventures. A good example of this would be Borderlands...

I think far too many of you ex-RB'ers take stuff way to seriously. I seriously had to question if you actually knew it was just a game for fun sometimes.

Then it turned two-faced/sided, and split into factions. A bit of childish stuff started, and people started having problems with other people. I'm unclear on the real issues for the exodus, and frankly I don't care - it's none of my business. If you players don't want to be in the guild, fine -leave.... but was there really a need to remove the players that chose to stay? It wouldn't have hurt to left them to it... regardless of the fact they didn't "make" the guild. Some of them had been active there for years...

It seemed like a "I don't want it, so nobody else can have it." mentality. If that's not selfish, I don't know what is.

Perhaps it's time to change the QotM to "Realms Beyond is a fascist dictatorship, and only the people at the top matter".

Peace-Out.

[Sylva Firewind]

I don't agree with the latter half of the previous email but I do feel a certain disappointment that the small group or persons that control what is done feel it better to just do away with the guild rather than persevere. I will miss being a part of the guild even with the personality differences and occasional falling out with other guilds in the few alliances we were a part of. It is truly sad that a guild that was as long standing as this one closes its doors. As one never privy to the continuing drama that apparently unfolds amongst the more established RB members I close wondering if, perhaps, a certain elitisms amongst its members is more the root cause of an epic failure in leadership the closing of this guild represents.

Good luck in whatever future adventures you take. My presence is ever required elsewhere.

[DocVal]

Alas, no big deal. I still think this was handled badly by multiple parties, but I wasn't there.

I quick statement that is undeniable:

The idea that, since this is a game, everyone should behave themselves and be nice to each other is just hopeless. In nothing in life will people ever, ever, ever all get along, or even behave themselves. In game, since things are fake, people will behave WORSE. Aren't we all killing stuff and running around nude here?

But since it's a game, it doesn't matter. The beauty of a game is that it's consequenceless (except for our morbid loss of time.) Thus, don't let other's bad behavior get in the way of your fun. Certainly don't waste time participating in it--unless you think it's fun! Call it nothing, because that's what it is.

I hope to join you all gaming again wherever you are in a week or two when time allows. Help me find you!