[spoiler!] Ruffing Bull of Spain

[Ruff_Hi]

Aggressive Imps. From memory, they need either copper or iron so I won't see them running around too quickly ... but you will see them running around - a great scouting unit and in the hands of a good player, a threat!

Ikhanda will help with the expenses, couple that with the Organized, this combo could be very effective at running a large empire.

No knowledge of Twinkle.

[Ruff_Hi]

More expense reduction coming into play and an early Courthouse at Priesthood. He could be a threat to my (pretty obvious) great wall angle with Philo and early spy option. I wonder if he is thinking of Spy Econ too.

Peg and I are playing in pbem9 - seems like a very nice level headed fellow. Not sure how experienced he is but he did have the balls to take down one of Kodii's cities ... he didn't have enough balls to push on with the war. I think he is now stuck with only a few viable city spots in that game. Impact for this game - could be a player that you can push around.

[Ruff_Hi]

The only financial leader in the pack but a 3-headed beast. That will either lead to middle of the pack (safe) play or pretty efficient play (or maybe both).

Played against A4Life in the first pbem and he was pretty much a bit player in the diplo (if my memory serves me correctly). Also, didn't he attack me in my Aztec pitboss game? Something to watch out for.

The only leader with Mining so a possible early run at Bronze Working.

[Ruff_Hi]

The most obvious player in the bunch, no chance of misunderstanding what his game plan is - espionage economy. He must have fond memories of the espionage he ran against Sooooo in the first pbem game to try that in this game. I am sure that the lurkers are hoping that he can run a full blown EP economy this time without any half measures.

The real test will be to manage the transition from traditional teching to espionage teching. Obviously, alphabet comes into play but he also has to invest hammers in spies and time in getting them in place (not to mention the 5 turn wait).

Will he go for an early religion (al la Isabella) with his useful techs and try and spread that too?

Another big decision he has to make is what to do with his first Great Spy (the Great Wall gambit is a must) - Settle, Scotland Yard or EP Bomb?

[T-hawk]

Another big decision he has to make is what to do with his first Great Spy (the Great Wall gambit is a must) - Settle, Scotland Yard or EP Bomb?

If you want a true lasting espionage economy, it's settle the first and Scotland Yard the second. That order can be reversed if the capital has lots of commerce and you will run EP slider so that SY pays more sooner than settling. Although don't forget the settled GS also produces 3 beakers which typically helps get to Alphabet in the first place. The EP bomb just gives you a temporary EE that doesn't do any more once you've spent it.

The other part of an EE is religion discounts - do you have a plan to get your own holy city for the top discount of 40%?

[Ruff_Hi]

If you want a true lasting espionage economy, it's settle the first and Scotland Yard the second. That order can be reversed if the capital has lots of commerce and you will run EP slider so that SY pays more sooner than settling. Although don't forget the settled GS also produces 3 beakers which typically helps get to Alphabet in the first place. The EP bomb just gives you a temporary EE that doesn't do any more once you've spent it.

You are missing the huge discount you get in running missions from the spending differential. The mission cost is calculated and the very last step is to multiple it by the 'my EP spend v their EP spend' multiplier. The EP spend in question is how many EPs you have generated during the whole game (bombs count) against anyone v how much they have generated against anyone. During the early part of a game, a bomb will yield 3000 and they would have spent 4 x turns (say 400?). Thus the multiplier is ...

= (2 * targetPoints + ourPoints) / max(1,targetPoints + 2 * ourPoints)
= (2 * 400 + 3400) / (400 + 2 * 3400)
= 0.583

Effectively, I will get a 41.7% discount when running missions and they will get a 71.4% malus running missions against me.

I think an early bomb will more then pay for itself.

The other part of an EE is religion discounts - do you have a plan to get your own holy city for the top discount of 40%?

That is a good point. I was thinking about a religion and this will add weight to that argument.

[Ruff_Hi]

Been thinking about the bomb v Scotland Yard option more ... and the impact of the mission cost multiplier (MCM). The MCM effectively gives your EPs more 'lifting power'. Say I have 100 EPs against a target with a MCM of 0.9 - that means that my 100 EPs can do the work of 111 EPs of my MCM was 1.0 ... effectively a lifting power of 111%.

However, the MCM only comes into play when you actually spend your EPs. A Bomb gives an instant MCM of about 60% (66% lifting power) while Scotland Yard gives a 100% lifting power (your raw EPs are doubled) but no 3000 instant EPs.

I put together a spreadsheet to do some testing. I've made some simplifying assumptions (just to make it simpler for me ) ...

• Only 1 city
  
• Spy turns up on T50
  
• City generates 20 commerce growing at 2 commerce per 10 turns
  
• Able to run 100% EP
  
• Bomb v Scotland Yard
  

Under this scenario, the cross over point (bomb EP 'Power' v Yard EP 'Power') 91 turns after the bomb.



Changing that '2' in assumption #3 above to 1 (slower commerce growing city) changes the 91 to 104. ('3' -> 83, '4' -> 77, '5' -> 72).

Now, I get my 2nd GSpy 50 turns after my 1st one ... impact on above chart assuming I SYard in the bomb scenario and Settler in the Yard scenario ...



On the above, I don't see a lot of difference between the two. I think it will come down to who is my selected EP bomb target ... will that Civ give me the teching ability that I need. Select the wrong target and I reduce my ability to cherry pick my tech stealing options.

[Ruff_Hi]

Players, their leaders, UU, UB and techs

• adhoc - Louis (Creative, Industrious) of Arabia (Camel Archer, Madrassa, Mysticism, Wheel)
  
• Twinkletoes89 - Hammurabi (Organized, Aggressive) of Zulu (Impi, Ikhanda, Agriculture, Hunting)
  
• Pegasus - Frederick (Organized, Philosophical) of Sumeria (Vulture, Ziggurat, Agriculture, Wheel)
  
• novice / spacemanmf / Athlete4Life - Huayna Capac (Industrious, Financial) of China (Cho-Ko-Nu, Pavilion, Agriculture, Mining)
  
• Ruff - Sitting Bull (Philosophical, Protective) of Spain (Conquistador, Citadel, Fishing, Mysticism)
  

I see we have a map thread ... we have a turn order ...

Turn order:

• Ad hoc Louis of Arabia
  
• TT Hammurabi of Zulu
  
• Pegasus Frederick of Sumeria
  
• novicemanmf4life Huayna Capac of China
  
• Ruff Sitting bull of spain
  

... we just don't know who is first.

The other part of an EE is religion discounts - do you have a plan to get your own holy city for the top discount of 40%?

I was thinking about a religion and this will add weight to that argument.

Looking at this more closely, the only other player with Myst is ad hoc. Assuming that we all have roughly the same tech ability, he can beat me to a religion if he is first. If any other player is first, then adhoc will play after me. On that basis, I have a 4/5 probability of playing my turn before adhoc (assuming unbias starting player selection by our map maker). However, in practice, I probably have to water that down by allowing for the human element (ie mapmaker will just take the order as given) to 2/5.

[Ruff_Hi]

Bob reminded me that going to lie my ass off in pbem #9 ...

So, are you still playing the game as a consummate liar, or did you decide to abandon the idea?

oops forgot to do that there. However, this game makes even a stronger argument for playing the others off against each other. I could play the master spy manipulating everyone else to my own ends. I've also been thinking about how to play this game ... more on that later when I see my start.

[T-hawk]

Ruff, you may want to keep in mind that other players in PBEM 9 could see you talking about PBEM 9 here.