FFH PBEM8 Map thread

[Ilios]

Some players have easy access to Marble, others don't.

[Mardoc]

Some players have easy access to Marble, others don't.

Thank you. Added Marble to everyone. I thought about removing it instead, but frankly people don't build many wonders in these games anyway.

Anyone have any macro-scale comments? Is the overall land distribution fair? Any sections that are too easy for just one person to own?

[Gaspar]

This is just a metagame comment, but if I were making this map I'd make it purposefully lush. You have Mist, Sareln, Amelia and Mr. Yellow - 4 players who have had a pretty rough time of their FFH PBEMs. I'm not saying favor those 4 players, far from it, but I think I would try and make the land a little greener and riverful. Not to mention, several of the recent maps (4 & 6 especially) have been pretty bleak, but I don't think we've seen a purposefully lush map.

If you post the save after your next pass is complete I'd be happy to take a look at it.

[Mardoc]

This is just a metagame comment, but if I were making this map I'd make it purposefully lush. You have Mist, Sareln, Amelia and Mr. Yellow - 4 players who have had a pretty rough time of their FFH PBEMs. I'm not saying favor those 4 players, far from it, but I think I would try and make the land a little greener and riverful. Not to mention, several of the recent maps (4 & 6 especially) have been pretty bleak, but I don't think we've seen a purposefully lush map.

If you post the save after your next pass is complete I'd be happy to take a look at it.

Will do.

I actually just had an alternate idea for handling Quest Island. Suppose I make it Quest IslandS? Although Ygg, Remnants, etc, are supposedly Unique, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason they have to be in worldbuilder. If I set one up in the northern ocean, one in the southern ocean, and reveal them to all at the start of the game, that might be fair. It would go along with the idea of lushness, too.

What do you all think?

[Gaspar]

Will do.

I actually just had an alternate idea for handling Quest Island. Suppose I make it Quest IslandS? Although Ygg, Remnants, etc, are supposedly Unique, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason they have to be in worldbuilder. If I set one up in the northern ocean, one in the southern ocean, and reveal them to all at the start of the game, that might be fair. It would go along with the idea of lushness, too.

What do you all think?

Personally I would just put one of each on 3 separate islands. And while I think your banana thing is fun, maybe they don't have to have the *only* copies of a resource. For example, you could do Ygg island with 3 banana tiles, a mana node and Gurid. You could do Remnants with, say 3 fish around it, a mana node and Leviathan patrolling. Then you could do Dragon Bones with 3 corn and Margalard patrolling. Maybe put TumTum or Guardians on Leviathan island in case he wanders into a less dangerous position.

That kinda sounds fun, actually.

[Mardoc]

Ok, here's the map incorporating most of your comments, friendly lurkers:

Save Here

Islands of Toys:

Bannor:

Ljosalfar:

Amurites:

Hippus:

Clan:

Calabim:

[Mardoc]

Personally I would just put one of each on 3 separate islands. And while I think your banana thing is fun, maybe they don't have to have the *only* copies of a resource. For example, you could do Ygg island with 3 banana tiles, a mana node and Gurid. You could do Remnants with, say 3 fish around it, a mana node and Leviathan patrolling. Then you could do Dragon Bones with 3 corn and Margalard patrolling. Maybe put TumTum or Guardians on Leviathan island in case he wanders into a less dangerous position.

That kinda sounds fun, actually.

Hmm, I like that idea. Well, except Leviathan - I don't want the quests to interfere with the choice to ignore them and build a normal empire, but Leviathan uncontained would likely wreck someone's coastline, without necessarily stopping a sneak settlement.

Maybe just use a weaker enemy or enemies for the Dragon Bones, which is probably the least of the big three anyway. Or maybe a Barbarian Mithril Golem? Edit: Ok, the abandons non-Kilmorph is probably an issue, but maybe a barb Nullstone Golem? Weaker, but not a Beast and has magic resistance.

[DaveV]

Hmm, I like that idea. Well, except Leviathan - I don't want the quests to interfere with the choice to ignore them and build a normal empire, but Leviathan uncontained would likely wreck someone's coastline, without necessarily stopping a sneak settlement.

Maybe just use a weaker enemy or enemies for the Dragon Bones, which is probably the least of the big three anyway. Or maybe a Barbarian Mithril Golem? Edit: Ok, the abandons non-Kilmorph is probably an issue, but maybe a barb Nullstone Golem? Weaker, but not a Beast and has magic resistance.

An alternative guardian would just be a heavily buffed normal unit (i.e. a champion with heroic attack 2, heroic defense 2, mithril weapons, combat 5).

[Mardoc]

An alternative guardian would just be a heavily buffed normal unit (i.e. a champion with heroic attack 2, heroic defense 2, mithril weapons, combat 5).

I like that idea the best. So we'll have three islands each with a Big 1, spread around the map, with nice resources, a mana node, and a Guardian each. And prerevealed to the players. The combination of decreasing the reward and making it easier to get an island ought to help with balance here.

I'm going to aim to send out the map to the players tomorrow about 27 hours from now, so any last minute feedback would be greatly appreciated by then.

[Azoth]

I'm going to aim to send out the map to the players tomorrow about 27 hours from now, so any last minute feedback would be greatly appreciated by then.

The map seems to be fairly well balanced but I tend to be a stickler for such things so feel free to ignore the following:

I think it's important to focus on commerce specials, especially in an Immortal-level game, but I think it's not enough to simply to sprinkle a few around every start point.

Commerce specials are not created equal (Incense/Dye > Gold/Gems > Wines/Silk/Spices >> Cotton) but they're also worthless without nearby food sources to support them. In this light, I think the Bannor have it made: double Sheep+Wheat+Wines at Capital, Rice+Incense, Cow+Sheep+Spices, and Sheep+Clam+double Gems. That's four good to excellent early commerce sites. None of the other players seem to have nearly as much food or commerce.

For instance, the Gold/Incense east of the Amurite start may as well not exist, because there's no food in that desert. Likewise, the Orcs have weak Cotton and forest Silks at three different sites around their capital, but only one weak Deer between them. The Hippus, strangest of all, have no starting river proper, but three Dyes+one Incense; the Dyes are all next to jungles tiles, making for very unpredictable results. Maybe you think I'm nitpicking, but looking at these starts, I know I'd pick the Bannor in a heartbeat. I'd suggest giving/reshuffling some food around the Amurite/Clan/Ljos starts, maybe upgrading some Clan specials, and doing a slight rework for the Hippus.