novice Wrote:Is the SoZ +3XP in every city, or just one city?
Hmm I hadn't thought about that. I figured it was in every city, but upon further review, you're probably right that it's just in the city that builds it.
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[spoilers] Pindicator and Regoarrarr - Bismark of Ethiopia
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Hmm I hadn't thought about that. I figured it was in every city, but upon further review, you're probably right that it's just in the city that builds it.
So how do we pass messages to other civs? Actually one thought that I had over lunch was that since this is a PB game, rather than the previous AI Diplo games which (AFAICT) have all been PBEMs, you might even be able to "coordinate" with another player in-game by passing different messages. I give you a fish, you give me a fish back, we offer open borders, etc. That may not be exactly in the spirit of things for this casual pitboss though - it was just a thought I had.
But here are some thoughts for ways to offer things through the diplo window that could be used to communicate: * Resource trades, or even better, resource gifts. It doesn't even have to cost us anything - if we have a spare fish, we offer it to another civ to show goodwill. Or if we have corn but not wheat, we trade corn to someone for wheat. * Unit gifts. At some point we will likely have spare obsolete units (warriors, archers, etc.) - so at one point we just gift the unit to the power we're courting * Missionaries! So these are units too, so somewhat covered above, but in addition, converting people to "our" faith has benefits. Our shrine will be huge, plus for whatever reason, even though there's no real reason for humans to take stock in the "Brothers and sisters of the faith" bonus, it does seem to happen. I think this is a HUGE pro to the concept of the monk economy. * Utilizing "countdowns". So say we want to attack Krill in 20 turns, and want to get say Azza on our side. So we offer "War with Krill" for 20g on our side. Then next turn we do "War with Krill" for 19g, etc. Or maybe do it every 5 turns or so. Or maybe we make it "War with Krill" and 20g for 20g, so we don't actually lose tons of gold. Then there's also unit naming, though again, that doesn't seem to be in the spirit of things. We'll have to try to brainstorm some other ideas to see what we can think of.
Been trying to do a bit of opponent analysis, especially on the ones that I haven't played on.
Found this about Azza PBEM33 spoiler
The way I see it, there are five kinds of offers when it comes to communication by trade.
1) Plain old offers where everything makes sense, e.g. 3gpt for marble. There isn't much communication value here. 2) Offers that are obviously one-sided, with you giving the other player something. They will probably accept, and the hope is that they will feel indebted to you after. 3) One-sided offers with you demanding stuff from someone. This is either a beg or a demand; hopefully they'll interpret it correctly! These are less likely to be accepted than gifts, of course, so riskier as they can degrade relations. All one-sided offers carry an implicit "if accepted, the benefiting party promises to be nicer to the other party than than if not accepted". 4) Offers that include bizarre crap, like a fish when everyone owns like 5 fishes and corps are our of the picture, or iron for iron. In this case you are trying to use the fish to represent something else or be symbolic in some way, but your trading partner will have to figure out the details. Symbolic additions to trades do not cause them to not be accepted, so a common side effect is that the other players can see the result. You can try to take advantage of this by offering favorable deals with bizarre riders to make the other players think you're coordinating. 5) Completely dumb offers like the last one of mine you quoted above. It's trying to communicate something because it has silly stuff (fish), it's not a demand because there's stuff being traded to them too, and it's clearly not expected to be accepted because it's terribly unfair in quality though not quantity. Of course since I'm not posting this in anyone else's threads, good luck making it work.  Btw, you can't actually offer stuff like "war with x" or "stop trading with x" against humans.
It's great fun trying to communicate through offers like this, so in that sense it's totally in the spirit of the game.
 If an (un)official coded message list became commonly available, that might start threatening to circumvent the idea behind AI diplo. Luckily we're not there yet. I guess countdowns are kosher (great idea by Luddite there), ascii-encoding arbitrary messages is obviously not. SevenSpirits Wrote:Btw, you can't actually offer stuff like "war with x" or "stop trading with x" against humans. I think a reasonable compromise would be official standard messages such as those above which could simply be typed into the diplo window. The messages that are typically available with AIs seem like a good list. As an aside, I got the impression that players in pbem20 teched to MDPs just to be able to offer them. And they quickly turned out to be worthless.  As another aside, modding in additional diplo options would be really cool. Forced peace for an arbitrary number of turns, for example.
I have to run.
novice Wrote:If an (un)official coded message list became commonly available, that might start threatening to circumvent the idea behind AI diplo. I dunno. To me at least, I think at least a big part of the AI diplo is just a time-saver. That way you don't feel like you have to be responding to a hundred emails a day or constantly on gchat (e.g. PB4) in order to be effective. I'm a little unclear as to what things might be like in a PB game though. In theory, I could get online with someone else and we could try and perform diplo through the AI window in a more "real-time" setting. Again, I don't know how effective that would be, since nobody knows what anyone else is talking about (" A fish for your iron and 2 cities? No, how about fish for COPPER and 2 cities ). But it is different than a PBEM, where you have more discrete timing (it only comes along with your turn)
My initial thoughts are probably worker first and then Fishing -> BW. The good news with the changes to EXP is that we will get 5 f-h/t on our worker (whereas in the base game we would not). We will also get an extra hammer on our workboats.
And uh.... this capital has a lot of food. We will definitely want to share some with other cities, but it looks like we're on a peninsula, so the only sharing will be the southern clams. It does look like land W-NW of the pigs. We could always not SIP. Settling on the plains saves a forest but means the fish is orphaned and delays the pigs a turn. Remember we can pasture the pigs just with Hunting, which we already have.
So I disappear for 16 hours (8 of sleep and 8 of work) and I come back to 2 pages of rego spam! Wow, I have my work cut out for me if I'm going to be an equal contributor here. Well, let's get started:
regoarrarr Wrote:So probably the best / funniest examples of trying to send AI diplo messages was from SevenSpirits in PBEM23. The war allies one i can see. In fact, luddite and I tried to do the same with yuri ourselves; we gifted horse for horse, but it looks like yuri took both trades and didn't have much of a clue what either of us were asking Still, I think that's a convention that would be easier to grasp. You could try to do the same with health or happiness resources if you want to try for more of a peaceful intention for partnership.Another thing luddite thought up in pbem23 was a way of signifying when you want something to happen: ask to trade 5g for 5g when you're 5 turns away; 4g for 4g when you're 4 away, and so on. If you're counting down every turn like this it will pretty obvious that you mean for something to happen on that turn. It's just conveying the what that may be difficult!
Suffer Game Sicko
Dodo Tier Player |
![[Image: pb5start_6.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1116194/pbem23pics/pb5start_6.jpg)
