English Never Cry: Tasunke's SPOILER thread

[Tasunke]

So do you think for say a NaP/Alliance with Russia, better to let him have sweden or ask that he not take sweden yet?

In any case, I am certainly up for a NAP with Russia ... I just need to get this France/Germany situation out of the way.

[Tasunke]

It would certainly be bad if France and Germany are currently allies.

It would mean that either Germany has lied to Italy, or Italy has lied to me. Likely the former.

[Molach]

Hm. Well norway is english so just proclaim your intent to stop there, and no attacks next year(s?). Germany might even try to bump him out of sweden for you. Unless he is sailing for north sea, that is.

Both France and Germany's threads are ...long so there must be some activity going on there. Possibly they allied when you were incommunicado, but with you all back in the game it should be doable to turn germany around. But critical time is now, before he sends fleets into your waters and commissions more fleets. As a last ditch you can always vow to hurt him the most and give france a free ride (sailing?). He is a fellow villager, after all.

Hm, just realized Italy claims to have gotten Germany along with the 3-way attack already. Well in that case just go for it. German fleet in north sea is a good indicator someone was lying, still think seize norway and fleet to channel is best move this fall anyway so nothing lost in case he backstabs.

[oledavy]

Risk 2210

If there were an online version of Risk 2210, and enough people interested in it, I would be all over that game

[Molach]

Ouch on fall moves - not yours but Germany. Sending fleet into north sea means he has hostile intent.

However as you bounced him there, russia got into sweden and may be able to help against germany a bit. It looks like they have stable front vs. turkey so mabye they are free to rush germany. Germany will take some time to be able to attack england, he can only build fleet in Berlin in stead of kiel as he must have hoped. France builds fleet brest for sure, and can then force his way into the channel so that is not good.

I suppose diplomacy went bad, looks like italy is missing in action so no attack on france. Mabye play the "I will mess you up and let france seize england"-gambit on germany, and let russia know you will assist (and support) them in any way they want against germany unless they seize attacking.

I read in controlling thread that Mardoc would accept my build order to save england a buildless winter. Think no-build at this time is very bad for Britannia ruling the waves. I sent in "fleet in edinburgh" as a placeholder. Fleet liverpool is stronger vs. france, edinburgh might hold ze germans.

[Molach]

Well. Takin' ova.

It appears France and Germany have gone all Seelöwe on us.

Fra-Ger attack on England. Highlights from that article:

At this point the game for the English is over. If the English use their fleets to dislodge the Germans they can still retreat to threaten the English center and the French crush first London and then walk up the Island. If the English go after the French then the Germans walk around the Island.

Either way, England is crippled quickly, the Lowlands are demilitarized and the French-Germans have three units each to pursue their next targets.

The opening is clean, quick, and deadly with a little imaginative diplomacy on the western side.

Tasunke's moves have been 100% spot on to counter the opening, which has lead to france and Germany a little behind development. But without diplomacy we are dead all the same, in a couple of years.

My reasoning for spring moves wer basically to get into north sea, and put pressure on Germany. My plan is to get Bigger to my side. I do not think I can or will get assistance from 'honorable' french, so focusing on Bigger now. Apart from a welcome heres my email I sent off to all players, I sent this to Bigger:

Hello.

Unless my eyes deceive me, I am at a state of war with germany and france.
Do my eyes deceive me?

Anyway, I suggest you join me against the french instead.

I promise you loyalty, tacical control of english navy/army if you wish, full say in where I may deploy my fleets and what lands, if any, I should hold after french defeat.

I realize this means I can no longer win the game alone so playing for a team victory at best.

So how about it?

As an additional benefit, think of seeing scooter's thread afterwards - be a fun read.

This is [the first] 1-1 mail I send, no use mailing anyone else with this hanging in the wind.

If he answers vaguely, I'll try to argue that France will be too powerful after England is dead, and also say that I will use all my strength to resist Germany rather than France in case they keep attacking, hopefully leaving Germany weakened. So if he turns us down he will hopefully suffer a bit for it. But not really sure how I can bring this about, neutral/semi-friendly russia might have led to taking denmark, but russia helped Germany get into skagerrak, so I wonder if Germany and Russia have some agreement about scandinavia - if Russia joins attack this will be over very soon.

If germany sticks by france there will be no real need to talk to the rest of the world so gonna wait for Bigger and decide what to do.

If he sould miracously agree with me I will honor the agreement, leading to kind of a vassal status vs germany and see how it plays out.

But I suspect I must go look up 'how to defend british isle longest' and do just that.

[Molach]

About my moves: I had a very strong hunch that france would support into the channel so I didn't bother trying to bump him there although him moving both into channel and irish would be ...bad. But instead I used navy london to support into north sea, as part of my flexing muscles at Germany.

Sent a little follow-up mail too:

By the way, you must have noticed that my spring movement was directed at you rather than france. This was intentional, since I am giving YOU the chance to join, I will do my utmost to resist YOU should diplomacy fail. I think my British subjects would prefer the frogs rather than krauts on the isle.

But I am well placed to help you too, I can support into Belgium while you seize burgundy (one of those will succeed) and support you into sweden as well. I believe I can defend england okay with 2 units this fall.

Think Epic. Think Big. Do the right thing.

just to explain moves. No point in lying at this point, I mean everything I said.

[Molach]

Heard from Bigger.

It does occur to me that flipping right now would leave me more vulnerable than you let on. If you supported me into Belgium and sweden I would be up to 7 cores - which would be great, but - Scooter would still be dangerous w/ 5 (not having to disband since he'll pick up SPA this turn), and would offer you what ever you wanted to get his revenge - a better offer, maybe, than being my vassal. With an angry Russia willing to do what he can , and maybe even Austria or Italy fearing me pulling away and joining in the dogpile, Germany wouldn't have much of a chance. OTOH, if I stick w/ it and finish England off, being careful to keep approximate pace w/ Scooter, there is little incentive for him to stab me (as long as we are both careful), and once we are finished I can turn east or south with relative leisure.
Just thinking aloud, maybe you have a solution to my paranoia?

My reply:

I blame scooter the diplomat for forging this unholy alliance against me, and will never be bought from him. Trust me. I am facing defeat as first power in the game, all due to him. No I will not deal with him. It would also be suicide for any future negotiations with just about anyone. And while vassal status in Civ IV is somewhat bad, there is no such mechanic here, if our team wins we both win. (Or at least I get to outlive some players). I do not know what your involvement with Russia is. He supported you into skagerrak seems you are talking. So let him keep sweden, NAP for a few years. But I suppose he will understand that Eng-Ger will need to go east after Fra. But I suppose Fra-Ger will be just same problem for him anyway. I understand France will be hard to take out, as they will still have 5 centers if we do get belgium. We will win out in the end, I am sure.

From where I'm standing, we are begging for a place in the game and not be eliminated in a few years, so we will be very grateful. We will agree to a low growth-curve. And we suggest that scooter will grow alongside you, and that he will be more dangerous opponent, because of his position and skill at game. He WILL snatch victory from a seeming draw, I'm sure. He was backstabbed by germany first RB game so he'll make sure THAT does not happen again - by hitting first. Think of the entertainment worth of a stab now - our ratings would soar, leading to more interest in further games. However I can see why you would wish to take the safe, boring route and swallow a frog instead. He will not backstab during england war, and not while he eats italy and you/austria take a bear steak. But when you are approaching 18 centres he will go for the win. Remeber, I go to you and only you with the offer, because France would never agree - he knows he will be in the best position after the English War. Or rather he will be in position to do whatever he wants to, while you as central power are dependant on goodwill and must look over your shoulder rest of the game. So that's why we're mailing. I can't imagine I'll have anything to say to scooter except that his head would look good on the end of a pole.

I'll support into belgium (and sweden) if you ask, leave other units to block. I also know that I will leave myself open to invasion earlier. Your hypothetical move on Belgium might even be a pre-arranged division of centres and just to lull me into thinking we have a deal, leading to early invasion instead, but no matter to me whether I lose 1904 or 1906. A bit bad on the rest of the world but I gotta play out my one chance of survival anyway.

Comment: I mean what I say here, being Germany's lapdog is better than elimination. I really can't accept a counter-offer from France of any sort, either counter-alliance or cease-fire. Russia is a question here, I think diplomacy should have happened before Fall 1901, so that Germany might have bumped russia out of sweden.

If I were in his shoes I would have stuck with scooter, so really curious if he will try to lead me on so invasion will go easier or tell me straight up what pole my head will soon end up decorating.

Awaiting his answer before doing anyone else.

[Molach]

By the way, anyone who happens to read this thread - any advice on how to defend england? I'm talking general advice so ignore the way the units are placed now. I am very new to this game after all.

For instance, if I need to hold two adjoining areas with two armies, will it be a good idea to have them support each other? Will that work? Army A support army B (holding in place) and vice versa. Or is proactive defense better?

Any other general tricks on defense, and any in particular for the english geography?

[Molach]

In other news, sent out a common 'hello' email to all nations.

Good morning all nations.

With the elections going on last year, we are not happy to inform you that A. 'Molach' Balfour has been elected new prime minister, replacing R. Gascoyne-Cecil, the 3rd Tasunke of Salisbury.

Please use this line for any contact.

Due to lack of communication with the house of lords, I regret to report that I have no records of any prior communication with any of the nations so letting you know I (and you) are starting out with a clean slate.

-M

Funny because there WAS a chance of premier 1902. And there will be one in 1905, so we can bet whether he will have ze german or le french accent. Also funny because I now see that "NOT happy" should be NOW happy. Hurm. Well stiff upper lip.

Received replies from Austria and Italy:

Italy:

Good day Mr Balfour,

I think that you may be too late to save your country. I think it only fair for me to speak plainly and candidly given that I think our games have been decided already.


I tried to save you by getting Germany to stab France in the spring but he was too blind to opportunity and loyalty. He is not going to flip on scooter now and neither I nor you will be strong enough to assist him to take him down later. Scooter will then ally with his good friend Rowain and carve Germany up.


It seems an AT alliance is pretty secure too so it leaves us as the isolated nations. I tried to save us both but I think its too late now.


If you have any ideas on how to prevent this, I'm all ears.


TT

Austria:

I thought this was bizarre spam at first and almost deleted it, lol. Anyway, Austria and England don't have much cause to talk, but I wish you luck in escaping the unenviable grave dug for you.

-Archduke Tatan

*Messages slightly edited.

I'm still waiting to hear from Bigger.
So I went and sent another one

Hey.

Have been receiving some news from rest of the world. Rumor has it that France and Russa are pretty tight. So watch out from double stab from them after you all kill me. So it may infact be better to seize sweden after all, then hold russia while we attack france. We will also need NAPs or even help from other nations. I guess you have a very solid NAP with austria. Italy is, like me, quite isolated diplomatically and might be persuaded to help for a chance at marseilles.


Lets give the lurkers something to make bets over. Eng-Ger vs. Fra-Rus will be epic. Fra-Ger-Rus killing Eng and then Fra-Rus killing Ger less so. Well you might be able to hold against those two with some help from italy and mabye austira/turkey.


Reply in 12 hours good?


Heard from france, he says I am far from lost, and he is willing to hear me out. Having read the first game, I seriously doubt all this and he is just fishing for information. He's also probably guessing that I'm approaching you and giving you good reasons why you should stay allied. And in reply to that, if I may paraphrase, " I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering."


-M