Diplo with Tropical Trolls

[HitAnyKey]

And of course while playing the turn, I just discovered something else we need to ask them in diplo. See below screenshot:



They have researched Writing, which allows Open Borders. I think we should ask for an OB agreement, so that our scout Capra can pass through their borders on the eastern coast in order to head towards TEAMs territory faster rather than having to backtrack all the way around the Troll territory to the west.

[Lord Parkin]

From Tropical Trolls:

Hello,

Well all the classics are in the table ;-). At first we could e.g. sign a NAP, share some info and a bit later possible share some resources. Concerning info sharing I can tell you that our peace deal with TEAM wasn't as great as it may seem from outside viewer. We're paying for it via a settler and workers.

Plako

[HitAnyKey]

In a few I'm probably going to send a short message to the Trolls (or see if I can catch plako on Gchat) to ask about Open Borders for our scout. I want to get it done asap, since it would be nice if we can get an agreement on such before I have to move the scout this turn. If they'll agree, I won't send the scout further west, and I'll instead get him in position to be able to move through their lands to the NE. This way I don't waste another turn of his movements.

[HitAnyKey]

I'm about to go down for lunch, but figured I'd quickly post the chat I just had with plako:

11:07 AM me: Heya. Figured I'd toss you a quick chat, since I see you're online. I'll try to have us send a diplo email soon as well, but wanted to get a thought going for you guys right away so we can maybe get a response before we need to play our next turn....
11:08 AM plako.plako: hi
me: We are wondering if you guys might want to sign an Open Borders agreement. Our need right now, is that we'd like a quicker way for our scout to get east towards TEAM. As you can see, he got cornered by your borders and is having to backtrack to the west again.
11:10 AM plako.plako: I need to ask from team, but preliminarily could work. Need to follow our directions though.
me: yeah, that would of course be understood. And if there's anywhere towards team that you would like us to explore for you, we would almost definitely be open to that as well.
11:11 AM plako.plako: If you've scouted the areas SE from Gillette that would be could exchange
me: plus, I see you guys have ocean access via a river. And OB will get us Trade Routes to help us both out with income
plako.plako: You've Sailing?
me: yup
11:12 AM plako.plako: ok - That would be just one sided benefit
me: oh, didn't know that.
11:13 AM well, our next city will be about 9-10 tiles from the border of your NW city. So it shouldn't be too difficult to make a road connection at some point in the near future.
11:14 AM plako.plako: Quite a while. Of course, if you could offer something in exchange of OB commerce it could make us more intrested. Are you planning to build GLH?
11:15 AM Just FYI - we're not competing
Just would need to know
Because it affects the desicion
Of course info stays on us
Won't give it away
11:16 AM me: any information of that level is something I would have to discuss with the team first, but I'll post some of your questions in the forum so that we can do a quick discussion.
11:17 AM plako.plako: That would be great. Information like this could be enough as a payment
After all we'll eventually get sailing too
me: I just wanted to get a quick initial mention of the OB topic out to you now. Will post more stuff in detail in our forum for discussion, and then get an official diplo message to you guys today.
yup, that's true.
11:18 AM Is your 3rd city on the water, or will that be your 4th would be on the water?
actually, you already have 4 cities.
I keep miscounting based on what the diplo screens show. lol
11:19 AM plako.plako: Yeah - capital is missing there.
11:20 AM It seems you did well against Pirates.
11:21 AM me: Decent enough. Took a couple bad military losses, but overall it went well enough.
11:22 AM We got the city and a border has been agreed upon...at least for now. Hopefully it sticks for awhile.
You guys got a city from TEAM, right?
plako.plako: Yea, but we paid market price for it
11:23 AM me: ah right, I remember you said something about paying with a settler & workers.
11:24 AM plako.plako: yeah - We just grinned our teeths and paid since any other alternative would have lost the game for both of us
me: I'm guessing it was an agreement where they pulled back their military to let you take it, without conflict as part of the trade? We almost had one like that with the Pirates. And they also wanted a Settler in trade.
11:25 AM plako.plako: It was gifted. We'll settle them a city soon and gift it back
11:26 AM So how is your relationship with Gillette? They've been able to develop in peace
Landed religion. Maybe heading towards Oracle
11:27 AM me: We started off with a good relationship...and were in the process of setting a border (scooter was going to make a dot-map proposal), and then he lost interest. So I'm going to have to work up a map of my own I guess to propose to whoever is handling their diplo now.
plako.plako: ok - they've been pretty silent lately
11:32 AM me: Hmm, looks like it's our turn. Guess I should go post some stuff for THH & I (and maybe LP) to discuss, and get a message sent off to you guys once it's been agreed upon what we'll say.
And I'll need to decide what to do with our scout for this turn. Heh
11:33 AM plako.plako: sounds good.
me: Do you think it's likely that an OB agreement could be forthcoming?
11:34 AM If so, I'll send the scout back NE so that he's on the far eastern border of your territiry for minimal entrance
11:36 AM plako.plako: Can't say. I need to put this on our forum. If it nets us something in echange then I'm definately intrested. It doesn't need to be much e.g. map somewhere a sligthly lopsided border deal (we'll probably share a border in the center) could do be ok

As you can see, the chat also confirmed that it was Gillette who got the Religion and is most likely going for Oracle. I doubt we have a chance of beating them to it, but if we can get the necessary techs quick enough after Masonry, it might be worth a shot if we can get production out of Animal Farm at a good level. But we'd probably be better going for Pyramids at this point, with them going for Oracle. Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.

[TheHumanHydra]

Thanks for doing the chat, HAK. Very interesting stuff - especially the bit about their war with TEAM. Sounds like a similar situation to ours, but they went for the ridiculous (maybe it wasn't in their situation) Settler-gifting deal. This gives me some hope - it seems we came out better from our early-game war than at least one other team. I guess we'll have to wait on developments to see if that was really the case, though!

Plako's comments about Open Borders concern me. My dedlurker in another game pointed out that landing the Great Lighthouse often makes it difficult to keep Open Borders with other teams; Plako's comments seem to confirm that. On the other hand, his probing about Gillette is a hopeful sign - maybe we'll be able to form an alliance against them in the future. An alliance against our strongest neighbour can't but be a good thing! Hopefully we can foster good relations with the Trolls down the line.

Now, I guess you wanted another diplomatic message drafted today! How about this:

Hello,

I guess you already know from your chat with HitAnyKey that we are interested in an Open Borders agreement to allow our Scout to pass through to TEAM's land, his course to be determined by you. Thank you for the information about your peace deal with TEAM; for our part, we took the offending Pirates city by force, and have just now signed a "blank peace" and established a neutral zone between us. Mostly out of curiosity, I'm interested to hear how your war with TEAM started - in our case, the Pirates settled aggressively toward us (I wouldn't quite call it a pink dot, though), and we responded by declaring war. Gillette, on the other hand, informed us of their settlement plans beforehand, and we were looking to be able to establish a borders agreement quite amicably, at least until scooter left - now it's kind of in limbo.

Anyway, if there are any other agreements you are interested in, either now or down the road, by all means let us know! Our communications may be a little slow as we are somewhat short-staffed, but we will always get back to you as soon as we are able!

TheHumanHydra

[HitAnyKey]

As stated in the turn thread, I sent the OB request in-game and this same turn (less than 5 minutes after I logged out, even) plako logged in to check the position of where I moved the scout to, and he accepted the OB request already. So it’s officially accepted without any actual requirements from them. And even in the chat, he stated such, that we can “share whatever [we] want”.
I think it’s probably safe to tell them that yes, we are building the Great Lighthouse. What this benefits us, is their “gratitude” of us letting them know that somewhat big piece of info. I don’t see how it’s even possible for anyone to beat us to it, even if they wanted to try. We have overflow going into it next turn (with 50% for Wonder Building), next turn we’ll have 2 forest chops going into it, and the following turn another forest chop going into it. This because I have all 3 forests pre-chopped so it’ll only take one turn for them all.
He also stated that their primary interest is in seeing what some of the land to the SE of Gillette is like. I think we can pick some decent screenshot that will show them something of the area down there. I’m more than happy to let them consider making some cities down that way which would cause border tensions between them and Gillette, rather than between them & us towards the center of the map.

It is quite an interesting agreement for their peace treaty with TEAM. The gifting of the cities back and forth, rather than actually capturing them in war-time. My guess is that TEAM had a rather strong fortification in the city and they were only willing to back down and retreat if they would get a city in return, and their would be no gold transfer due to actually capturing a city during battle.

[TheHumanHydra]

Yeah, I thought maybe I should add in that we are building the Great Lighthouse, since they basically know that already. I'll ask if they have any wonder plans in the near future.

Note that we don't actually have all the land to the SE of Gillette mapped out, but we could send them a screenshot of what we do know.

New proposed reply coming in next post.

[HitAnyKey]

Oh, and the course is already decided. He let me know that in the chat. The scout will go NW-N and then N-NE, which moves him quickly through that eastern edge of their land and out the other side.

[TheHumanHydra]

New proposed reply:

Hello,

I see the Open Borders agreement progressed quickly; thank you very much for that! If you still want to send directions for our Scout's path through your land so he doesn't see anything he shouldn't, by all means! Also, I think HitAnyKey is going to whip up an image of what we know of the area south-east of Gillette since you expressed interest in seeing that.

Thank you very much for the information about your peace deal with TEAM; for our part, as HAK alluded to, we took the offending Pirates city by force, and have just now signed a "blank peace" and established a neutral zone between us. Just out of curiosity, I'm interested to hear how your war with TEAM started - in our case, the Pirates settled aggressively toward us (I wouldn't quite call it a pink dot, though), and we responded by declaring war. Gillette, in contrast, informed us of their settlement plans beforehand, and we were looking to be able to establish a borders agreement quite amicably, at least until scooter left - now it's kind of in limbo.

You guessed correctly that we're going for the Great Lighthouse; thank you for letting us know that you're not also going for it. Are there any other wonders you're interested in pursuing in the not-too-distant future (you don't have to tell us if you don't want to, of course!)? We're currently deciding about our future tech path and wonder priorities, so you might be able to influence our course! It seems Gillette will get the Oracle ...

Anyway, if there are any other agreements you are interested in, either now or down the road, by all means let us know! Our communications may be a little slow as we are somewhat short-staffed, but we will always get back to you as soon as we are able!

Sincerely,

TheHumanHydra

[TheHumanHydra]

Oh, and the course is already decided. He let me know that in the chat. The scout will go NW-N and then N-NE, which moves him quickly through that eastern edge of their land and out the other side.

Oh, okay; so just cut that sentence out of my proposed reply.