[SPOILERS] SevenSpirits plays a civ game, dun dun dun dun dun!

[BRickAstley]

[SevenSpirits]

For anyone reading this afterwards, we rolled a new map because of controversy about the revelation of food tiles in the fog.

My new start looks pretty nice. However I suspect that the previous one was actually even better. With that one I could move the scout E-NW to make sure I am not losing any critical resource, and if not, move onto the plains hill 1SW. I get a lot of river, plains hill plant and 1-2 food resources (or more, I guess).

Current start has great resources (though requires me to tech AH right away) but it's really clunky. It takes my worker 2t of wasted movement just to reach my good food resource (the pigs), no matter which of the main options I settle at. Settling in place doesn't get gold or a 2h plant; settling 1NE doesn't get gold either and furthermore leaves the main river area behind; and settling 1W loses a turn and the sheep, leaving me potentially with a really low-food capital. (All those grassland hills are nice only if I have 2 food resources.)

[zakalwe]

The plains ivory is a 2-hammer plant. I would consider that.

[Merovech]

Where do you plan to move your scout? I see two main options. Actually, I would want to check if the tile 2N of your settler is wet or not before deciding. (Note: I have not seen the map; I'm just fog-reading.

[SevenSpirits]

Yeah, ivory plant is definitely an option. It's the short-term best if there isn't more food at the plains hill spot.

I am thinking to move the scout to one of the three western hills, but I'm not sure which one. Probably will want to investigate in the save first, like you say checking fresh water, and verifying which tiles at the edge of the fog are forests.

[SevenSpirits]

Here is what my numbers tell me, approximately and not taking particular starting situations into account. +4.5t on Sury (for an example) means I think if you had to skip your first 4.5 turns it would be about equal to Julius. This measurement breaks down for really large numbers, for example you wouldn't want to take Sury if Genghis existed and got a 9.5t head start on you and knew where you were. So maybe a better way to think of it is as extra anarchy turns spread evenly through the game (but they also affect your workers). Anyway, the spread between 1st and 6th is way more than 1t, so picking first is significantly better than being first in turn order. Frustrating that I have no chance at Sury.

+4.5t Suryavarman (Exp, Cre)of Germany (Hunting, Mining)
+2.5t Asoka (Org, Spi)of Netherlands (Agriculture, Fishing)
+2t Zara Yaqob (Cre, Org) of Celts (Hunting, Mysticism)
+1.5t Louis XIV (Cre, Ind)of Persia (Agriculture, Hunting)
0 Julius Caesar (Imp, Org)of Viking (Hunting, Fishing)
0 Napoleon (Cha, Org)of Rome (Fishing, Mining)
-1t Augustus (Imp, Ind) of Babylon (Agriculture, The Wheel)
-1.5t Justinian (Spi, Imp)of Spain (Fishing, Mysticism)
-2.5t Charles de Gaulle (Ind, Cha)of England (Fishing, Mining)
-4t Alexander (Agg, Phi)of China (Agriculture, Mining)
-5t Genghis Khan (Agg, Imp) of France (Agriculture, The Wheel)

I think generating a relatively even list of combos is harder than I anticipated.

[zakalwe]

Is that just based on the traits? Or do the civs actually factor into it?

[SevenSpirits]

Just for fun, here's a comparison list of generated civ/leader pairs. I did 24 since it seemed like I'd need to cut at least 50%. I've highlighted the 12 I'd keep in the middle.

(Spoilered due to unrelatedness and possible confusion)

+7.5 Lizzie of India
+6 Mansa of Persia
+6 Izzy of China
+5.5 Sury of Korea
+5.5 Willem of Japan
+4.5 Roosevelt of Inca
+4 Asoka of France
+3.5 Zara of Vikings

+1.75 Joao of England
+1.75 Hannibal of Maya
+1.75 Ramesses of Rome
+1.5 Gandhi of HRE
+0.5 JC of Egypt
0 Cathy of Germany
0 Napoleon of Khmer
0 Ragnar of Byzantium
-1.5 De Gaulle of Portugal
-2 Lincoln of Netherlands
-2.5 Kublai of Aztec
-3.5 Stalin of Ottos

-4 Gilgamesh of Carthage
-5.5 Boudica of Zulu
-5.5 Genghis of Natives
-9.5 Toku of Mali

By my measure I got quite a bit less variance. I wonder if that's due to the people who made the list we are playing with having different estimations of quality compared to mine, or if they only generated 18 leaders/civs (it's easier) so only had half as many slots for cutting (or both).

@Zakalwe the civs factor into it too, but the impact tends to be a lot smaller than differences in traits.

[Shoot the Moon]

How exactly are you calculating those? Joao of England seems decently strong (although admittedly not much synergy between them).

[SevenSpirits]

Something like this: http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid291778

except I've updated the table in the meantime and decided to write it in turns rather than beakers since it's simpler to understand.

Btw, I realized I forgot to devalue IND a bit on these maps due to the possibility of someone getting a quick stone/marble. So in the list for this game, actually I'd subtract 0.5t from each IND leader resulting in this.

+4.5t Suryavarman (Exp, Cre)of Germany (Hunting, Mining)
+2.5t Asoka (Org, Spi)of Netherlands (Agriculture, Fishing)
+2t Zara Yaqob (Cre, Org) of Celts (Hunting, Mysticism)
+1t Louis XIV (Cre, Ind)of Persia (Agriculture, Hunting)
0 Julius Caesar (Imp, Org)of Viking (Hunting, Fishing)
0 Napoleon (Cha, Org)of Rome (Fishing, Mining)
-1.5t Augustus (Imp, Ind) of Babylon (Agriculture, The Wheel)
-1.5t Justinian (Spi, Imp)of Spain (Fishing, Mysticism)
-3t Charles de Gaulle (Ind, Cha)of England (Fishing, Mining)
-4t Alexander (Agg, Phi)of China (Agriculture, Mining)
-5t Genghis Khan (Agg, Imp) of France (Agriculture, The Wheel)