[SPOILER] Yell0w - Rhoanna, Hippus

[Yell0w]

There is absolutely nothing to say to this turn except that River of Blood was casted, so we don't need to plan around that WS anymore.

[Mafro]

Nice to see it starting!

Personally I like the settle-in-place option for the following reasons:

1. Great balance - tons of food, hammers, and commerce (rivers).
   
2. Defensibility - any early barbarians are likely to attack across the river.
   

I REALLY like the 2 hammer bonus from setting on plains hill, we are also expansive, which means that this extra hammer will be used quite early. For that reason and that reason only I decided not to settle in place

It's only a 1-hammer bonus, right? Or are you actually getting 3 hammers from the city square?

For expansion purposes, I think the option of working the corn would've been more powerful, especially given we start with Agriculture.

That said, I'd use your settler's 4 moves to join the warrior to the SW and then move back into position before settling, so as to clear more of the map with your starting settler's massive visibility. A better view of the map may inform where to send the scout.

Unfortunately I've got a 3 move settler which means I can't do that move, I'd have done it otherwise for sure.
I've moved my scout NN to get visibility on the tiles N of the hills. Then decided to move the settler 1 N and settle.

I hope there ain't any copper or iron on this tile, this would make my decision stupid I guess, but you never know.

I usually seek out defensible locations for my early warriors that bust fog and absorb barbarian attacks. It looks like the forested hill NNW of your northern warrior would be ideal for one such position, especially as it looks to have a river just beyond it. You might scout a couple squares beyond it and then retreat back to that position once barbarians get close to spawning.

I usually run circles around my capital to explore as much land as I can. In this case though I'll follow your suggestion at least with one warrior.

That particular tile might not make sense now, with the city placed where it is. A defensible tile further from the city's cultural border (which will soon pop) might be better.

As for the scout, consider sending it southeast to take advantage of its 2 moves for the next few turns and then circle counter-clockwise around your capital. I'd like to start identifying the best places for our next few cities.

Well I had to move the scout NN. But I'll probably turn him around and explore the SE like I wanted to, especially the coast line interests me a lot.
Btw. do you have any experience with the Torusland map script?

Never played Torusland before...be interesting to see how it unfolds.

[Yell0w]

It's only a 1-hammer bonus, right? Or are you actually getting 3 hammers from the city square?

For expansion purposes, I think the option of working the corn would've been more powerful, especially given we start with Agriculture.

Right now the city tile gives me 2 hammers + 1 hammer from the palace giving me 3 hammers without working any tiles. While building a Settler it will be 6 hammers.

Since we have two warriors already I only need one more warrior before I can get another settler. It might still be better to grow to size 3 but I'm pretty sure size 2 and then going for a settler right away will be faster.

Working a Corn for 5 food (it's not wet) is actually worse than working a forested plains hill tile for 3 hammers with 100% production bonus. On size two we can work two of those tiles for a total of 12 hammers combined with the 6 hammers from the city tile and palace that would be 18 hammers per turn giving us 144 hammers after 8 turns, which means if we overflow with 1 hammer we will get a 8 turn settler.

Size 3 would let us work the rice tile we will have hooked up by then for 5/0/1 giving 23 hammers per turn. Which will let me finish a settler in 7 turns unless I can overflow 7 hammers into the settler which is rather unlikely which would bring it down to 6 turns. Thats why I doubt waiting for size 3 is worth it.

Screen shot EOT after borders popped

I can't decide whether to send the Scout NE NE or S SW There are rivers all around apparently and a lot of gl tiles, which is what I want for my cities.

[Mafro]

Right now the city tile gives me 2 hammers + 1 hammer from the palace giving me 3 hammers without working any tiles. While building a Settler it will be 6 hammers.

Ah...I didn't realize that Expansion didn't double production received from food. Got it.

Since we have two warriors already I only need one more warrior before I can get another settler. It might still be better to grow to size 3 but I'm pretty sure size 2 and then going for a settler right away will be faster.

Working a Corn for 5 food (it's not wet) is actually worse than working a forested plains hill tile for 3 hammers with 100% production bonus. On size two we can work two of those tiles for a total of 12 hammers combined with the 6 hammers from the city tile and palace that would be 18 hammers per turn giving us 144 hammers after 8 turns, which means if we overflow with 1 hammer we will get a 8 turn settler.

I don't think we can work two forested plains hill tiles at size two - won't the city starve?

Moving to Agrarian as soon as Calendar is in will cause the Rice to yield six food, which means it will be equal in productivity to a forested plains hill while giving us a unit of commerce as well. It costs us a turn, but might be something to consider...and/or growing to size three.

[Yell0w]

I don't think we can work two forested plains hill tiles at size two - won't the city starve?

Yeah size 3 is in order then.

This land really looks lush and perfect for spamming farms.

[Mafro]

I don't think we can work two forested plains hill tiles at size two - won't the city starve?

Yeah size 3 is in order then.

This land really looks lush and perfect for spamming farms.

Yeah, I think we should target our second city somewhere in the floodplains to the northwest. That city can pump out settlers and workers, making the most of our expansion trait, while its rivers will keep our research and economy going. That will likely mean our capital would have to be producing most of our military for the short term, but that's not a terrible thing.

By the way, I put together a simulation in WorldBuilder and the fastest I was able to get a settler going, after growing to size 3, was turn 25 (having discovered Calendar and with Crafting being discovered turn 26, assuming we go for that next). What's interesting is that switching to Agrarianism didn't impact the timing. The turn lost to anarchy is offset by the extra food we get on the rice (which I assume we farm). The only real loss from switching, then, is 16 beakers of research. However, we still land Crafting on turn 26 either way and end up with two more food per turn (I assume we farm the floodplains next).

[Yell0w]

Yeah, I think we should target our second city somewhere in the floodplains to the northwest. That city can pump out settlers and workers, making the most of our expansion trait, while its rivers will keep our research and economy going. That will likely mean our capital would have to be producing most of our military for the short term, but that's not a terrible thing.

By the way, I put together a simulation in WorldBuilder and the fastest I was able to get a settler going, after growing to size 3, was turn 25 (having discovered Calendar and with Crafting being discovered turn 26, assuming we go for that next). What's interesting is that switching to Agrarianism didn't impact the timing. The turn lost to anarchy is offset by the extra food we get on the rice (which I assume we farm). The only real loss from switching, then, is 16 beakers of research. However, we still land Crafting on turn 26 either way and end up with two more food per turn (I assume we farm the floodplains next).

Wow, you put a lot of work into this, I usually do a sandbox to determine the fastest way, since you've already done that I'll follow your lead.

I could defog a lot of land this turn

I also think our 2nd city will most likely go to the NW, right now I like the spot our northern warrior is standing on, again we get a plains hill tile, we get another calendar happiness resource. It got forested hills to work which are great for settler production. The drawback is that it has only one floodplains to work in it's first ring.
In the south, west of the mana node would be a nice location for a 3rd city, by then we'll get another border pop in the capital, which means we can pre-farm the corn and get a riverside cotton as well as a lot of river gl tiles in our first ring.

I'll make a dotmap down the road.

Another interesting thing is the fort our scout is standing on. It gives 35% defensive bonus right now, and it is developing into a castle. As far as I know forts/castles give defensive boni to units and cities in 4 tiles radius. It will either have to be pillaged or controlled down the road.

I decided to take a detour with the warrior in the west and I'm glad I did, It revealed two sea resources, and a good spot for a fishing village. The body of water is also bigger than 12 tiles which means ships can be build.

There is a lot of water on this map, I looked up the options when creating a torusland scripted map, either it's lakes which will make 15% of tiles to water tiles, or more likely judging Q's comments, it will be "waterways" with 29% water tiles.

If you want I can forward the saves to you as well, enabling you to take a closer look and even play a turn should I be indisposed.

[Qgqqqqq]

The setting is "Inland Seas" which produces more connected bodies of water.

[Mafro]

Wow, you put a lot of work into this, I usually do a sandbox to determine the fastest way, since you've already done that I'll follow your lead.

I've got to warn you, this was my first time using WorldBuilder and running a test like this. I don't see any errors in it, but feel free to check my work.

I could defog a lot of land this turn

I also think our 2nd city will most likely go to the NW, right now I like the spot our northern warrior is standing on, again we get a plains hill tile, we get another calendar happiness resource. It got forested hills to work which are great for settler production. The drawback is that it has only one floodplains to work in it's first ring.

Yeah, I was thinking either that tile or the plains two tiles SW of it for city #2. The more I look at it, the more I like your plan (though who knows what tiles we're not seeing west of the other site). We can farm the 4 floodplains, mine the 4 hills, and cottage or workshop the rest. We're not creative, I don't think, so we'll need a monument or early religion to pop the borders.

In the south, west of the mana node would be a nice location for a 3rd city, by then we'll get another border pop in the capital, which means we can pre-farm the corn and get a riverside cotton as well as a lot of river gl tiles in our first ring.

Yeah, that's definitely the right tile down there, though I'm a bit concerned about the lack of hammers available, though I suppose we could mine the mana node tile until such time as we have need for it. I think we should look for a site with more production potential for city #3, as I'm concerned about building out our early military defenses. We can use the capital for that, but we're going to want to build infrastructure there, and possibly a wonder or two as well depending on how things play out.

Another interesting thing is the fort our scout is standing on. It gives 35% defensive bonus right now, and it is developing into a castle. As far as I know forts/castles give defensive boni to units and cities in 4 tiles radius. It will either have to be pillaged or controlled down the road.

Yeah, that is very interesting. As far as I know, maps don't spawn forts like that randomly, which would suggest that it was placed. Perhaps we will find such forts forming an outer ring of sorts around our starting point. Alternatively, they could be placed midway between starting points to act as potential points of contention. Regardless, I like the spot as a rock solid fog buster and barbarian absorber, especially with the rivers positioned as they are.

If you want I can forward the saves to you as well, enabling you to take a closer look and even play a turn should I be indisposed.

Sure, that'd be great. I'm happy to fill in with a turn here and there the need arises. You can reach me at lordmafro at that one mail service provided by Google.

[Yell0w]

So, we've met the Icepeople last turn, a scout in our east was heading from north to south and crossed paths with our scout.

I've explored more and the dot map will come next turn.

The worker finally finished I moved him towards the rice tile, putting one turn into a farm.
I decided that I'd put the overflow from the worker into a settler, I'll start building a warrior and growing next turn. I just had a gut feeling that it'd be worth it.