So.... not to be pushy or anything

[Jester]

I'm much better at Civ 4 than at Civ 3. Maintaining a balance of builder and military strategy is much easier. Micro is down, macro is up. Compulsive trade monitoring (which I never did, even in Civ 3, except for SGs, which took bloody ages) is no longer a requirement, and is easier in any case. The pacing is much nicer, and the game no longer feels forced in places.

I just plain like Civ 4 better than Civ 3. If you wipe out the AI issues, I like it just about as much as Alpha Centauri, which is to say, I love it. Add back in the AI, one of the strongest parts of the game, and this is far and away my favourite strategy game of all time.

-Jester

[chriseay]

I'll throw my hat in the ring at being much better at Civ 4 than Civ 3. In Civ 3 my max level was two above cheiftan, whatever that was. I just couldn't figure out how to get any better. In Civ 4, I am already beating Monarch most of the time. I'm not sure if this game is easier, or if it is just easier to become good at it. And maybe those two things are one in the same?

[Sirian]

I'll throw my hat in the ring at being much better at Civ 4 than Civ 3. In Civ 3 my max level was two above cheiftan, whatever that was. I just couldn't figure out how to get any better. In Civ 4, I am already beating Monarch most of the time. I'm not sure if this game is easier, or if it is just easier to become good at it. And maybe those two things are one in the same?

Civ3 had illogical paths to success:

* Build more, smaller cities, and pack them in like sardines.
* Avoid research. Avoid being first to research.
* Avoid buying recently discovered techs. Buy your techs at discount, after everybody knows them.
* Don't bother with Libraries -- you aren't researching anyway.
* You have to trade tech efficiently, including understanding the math behind it.
* The more military you build, the MORE likely the AI will attack you.
* If you do get attacked, you've GOT TO buy allies before the opponent does, or he WILL buy them and dogpile you.
* The way to build world wonders is to start building something else really big (like another wonder, or a new Palace), before your intended wonder comes available,while you research your way to your intended wonder, then switch to it at the last second.
* As leader of your civilization, it is vital that you babysit all kinds of minutiae, like making sure your city doesn't waste a couple of shields on the last turn of construction.

And there's more.


Civ4 aimed more precisely for the road to success to be more rational, less gamey. Thus the game is easier to engage for many players, but harder and less forgiving for those used to doing things the old way. ... Since that was the point, the intention, I'm glad that it is working out that way in practice.

Civ4 has logical paths to success:

* Fewer, larger cities are generally more efficient.
* Researching is not only rewarded but essential.
* The more military you build, the LESS likely you will be attacked.
* If you do get attacked, your allies won't be lining up to backstab you for pennies in bribes.
* The way to build wonders is to get to their tech first (or early) and build the wonder you want faster than anybody else does.
* Most forms of micromanagement have been rendered unnecessary and many more have been reduced in importance.


- Sirian

[chriseay]

Civ4 aimed more precisely for the road to success to be more rational, less gamey. Thus the game is easier to engage for many players, but harder and less forgiving for those used to doing things the old way. ... Since that was the point, the intention, I'm glad that it is working out that way in practice.

So in the end it's not about easier or harder, it's about design intentions to make a better game and succeeding in those intentions. I think that's the best possible answer to my question.

[MadDogTrebonius]

I thought the title of Epic Two was teaser enough. ... Maybe some of you recent arrivals are missing out on its significance.

Maybe some of us recent arrivals don't know the title of Epic Two??

[Kylearan]

Hi,

* Researching [in Civ 4] is not only rewarded but essential.

Ha! Is it really? I haven't finished the solo game yet I'm playing at the moment, but...maybe it's not really essential after all. Stay tuned...

-Kylearan

[Atlas]

Maybe some of us recent arrivals don't know the title of Epic Two??

Eastern Gem Traders (Dealers?) something like that, if you look back at the first page on this thread I put in links to the original Epic 2 and to Sirian's report.

Thanks Sirian, you very concisely summed up why Civ 4 is easier for some than Civ 3 the logical v. illogical paths to success strikes me as exactly the problem.

@Kylearan- When are you going to finish that game of no research? The no military one was brilliant. I am very curious to see your strategy, did you really push commerce to buy techs, or did you do some pointy stick research after buying your way into BW/IW? Did you farm Great People like there is no tomorrow to discover tech? There seem to be a number of strats that could be viable.

Get crackin' on that game/report !!! You have a no military variant with Alex, Monty, Izzy, and Genghis next !

[MadDogTrebonius]

Eastern Gem Traders (Dealers?) something like that, if you look back at the first page on this thread I put in links to the original Epic 2 and to Sirian's report.

So does that mean that the CIV epics are going to follow the same themes as the CIII epics?

[Atlas]

Now the answer to that I do not know. I am reminded of the 1st Epic "What is old is New again"!

[MadDogTrebonius]

I guess that brings me back to my original question: What is the title of Epic 2? Is it in fact the same as that of CIII Epic 2? Or is that only a guess?