Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Sandbox with Asoka (first turn so open game as custom scenario after you save it into the worldbuilder file).
I think I want to play spiritual. I can get to 6 workers super fast and having serfdom to make better use of worker turns can let us grow tall pretty quickly. I'm thinking of making a hammer bureaucap, growing it tall ASAP and then using it to churn out settlers. If barbs are on we should build a gren somewhere early on the hopeful assumption that a barb city will pop up and we can grab it. I want more map info before I finalize the initial three city placements.
ORG is obviously great for early factories, thus Asoka. When I have a little more time to sort out the start I'll send out my top 7. Other traits are probably good but I would like to take a stab at pulling all the levers available from the outset and SPI will allow that the best.
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Xenu, get off your ass and sim some.
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
BRICK: 
Can you confirm whether barbs are on? I don't recall seeing this setting from your initial post. If it is there, quote it in bold type for me and mock me mercilessly. The Wife is out of town tonight and I'm drinking my way through the fridge and can't be bothered to fact check for myself. xthx! 
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Xenu, I see you at least participated in the poll. Now would you care to give thoughts about leader selection?
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Xenu, last chance.
In:
Asoka (Spi/Org) of Aztec , Settler is 322h.
Julius Caesar (Imp/Org) of Japan , Settler is 313h.
Fredrick (Phi/Org) of the Holy Roman Empire , Settler is 313h.
Gandhi (Phi/Spi) of the Khmer , Settler is 322h.
Montezuma (Agg/Spi) of Germany , Settler is 322h.
Darius (Fin/Org) of the Dutch , Settler is 313h.
Hammurabi (Agg/Org) of England , Settler is 313h.
Out:
Augustus Caesar (Ind/Imp) of Rome , Settler is 304h.
Boudica (Agg/Chm) of Russia , Settler is 322h.
Brennus (Chm/Spi) of the Vikings , Settler is 322h.
Genghis Khan (Imp/Agg) of the USA , Settler is 332h.
Joao (Imp/Exp) of Carthage , Settler is 304h.
Lincoln (Chm/Phi) of the Mongols , Settler is 322h.
Peter (Exp/Phi) of India , Settler is 301h.
The gist of this is that I don't think EXP is going to be that awesome since our cities come with granaries and aqueducts (less need for the bonus health despite immediate approach of factories), and workers are cheap enough. I still think CHM sucks. It will be decisive in a grueling, evenly matched fight and then only marginally. If I need CHM to loosen up that sort of a log jam struggle I've lost anyway. Better to try to selectively pick battles and use another trait set. I don't think IND gets me too much. How many good wonders are left? Forges come with the cities, so a GE can pick up all or most of a selected couple of wonders. AGG is good for drafting but will we be in contact soon enough to abuse the ability to 1-pop draft rifles (base BTS) rather than 2-pop draft infantry? Usually by the time you can draft infantry at 2-pop you can almost build them as easily with tall cites working lots of tiles supported by healthy hammer modifiers (see factories). Other immediate use of AGG is marginal at best.
PHI is a good trait in this sprint setup game, especially early on as the initial trio of cities are growing tall. The time to reach the first selected tech seems really long, so PHI could help cut into that some to get to either of crucial early techs (factories vs. state property still needs to be decided). As I mentioned previously, I think SPI is a top trait in this game setup. Lots of options out of the gate and a variety of ways to benefit from the numerous civics available. And then there's ORG. Cheap factories. That's all it needs. The reduced maintenance is great too, but for my money here it's all about cheap factories. Darius with FIN is the only trait (I think) that I haven't commented on, but really he's just in there as the only other palatable ORG option I hadn't yet covered. I'm Darius in PB32 (RtR so some difference certainly) but for flavor I'd rather not play him in two games at once. That said, we start with lighthouses so working coast immediately can spare some worker labor if we fall behind. Which we won't because settlers are so expensive.
So, Xenu, thoughts? Or do I need to call the police down there for a health and safety check on your property? 
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Well, duh, I didn't cover IMP (+50% settlers) at all, which is a severe oversight since settlers are so expensive. I thought I had done a sandbox run with IMP when Brick first put it up but I guess I haven't. I may have to change all of this. First instinct would possibly be to swap out Darius/Hammurabi and add back in Genghis and Augustus. I'd probably rather not do that though.
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
Don't forget this is BTS so India's fast worker is the three move awesome version. And America wouldn't stuck in a late were game, because most of the reason it's usually a crappy civ is because the UB and UU are so late. Well, we're already close to the late game here so that stuff will come into play. And yeah you need to rethink in light of how good IMP is. It probably saves more hammers than ORG when you need them most (earlier). IMP/ORG would be my top pick here, even if it comes with Japan. 
I don't think I'd bother with FIN at all. Who has time to grow cottages?
Maybe you don't like Peter of India, but a swarm of fast workers would get you improved tiles in a hurry, never mind the use you can put them to in war.
Posts: 7,916
Threads: 158
Joined: Jan 2012
FYI When you do have a final list, please number your choices 1-7 so I know there's a specific order.
Posts: 5,455
Threads: 18
Joined: Jul 2011
Xenu, in my order of preference for the "In" group:
In:
Julius Caesar (Imp/Org) of Japan , Settler is 313h.
Asoka (Spi/Org) of Aztec , Settler is 322h.
Genghis Khan (Imp/Agg) of the USA , Settler is 332h.
Joao (Imp/Exp) of Carthage , Settler is 304h.
Fredrick (Phi/Org) of the Holy Roman Empire , Settler is 313h.
Gandhi (Phi/Spi) of the Khmer , Settler is 322h.
Montezuma (Agg/Spi) of Germany , Settler is 322h.
Out: (unsorted)
Augustus Caesar (Ind/Imp) of Rome , Settler is 304h.
Boudica (Agg/Chm) of Russia , Settler is 322h.
Brennus (Chm/Spi) of the Vikings , Settler is 322h.
Hammurabi (Agg/Org) of England , Settler is 313h.
Darius (Fin/Org) of the Dutch , Settler is 313h.
Lincoln (Chm/Phi) of the Mongols , Settler is 322h.
Peter (Exp/Phi) of India , Settler is 301h.
Wonders:
The Pentagon
The Kremlin
Three Gorges Dam
IND not worth it.
Conclusion: After thinking a bit, IMP really is the way to go. We need to be able to establish cities ASAP to claim land. It's far easier to grab land by claiming with a settler than capturing through military conquest. I see little value in CHM (paired with AGG you could do two promo drafted units I suppose) so I've discarded those civs, as well as IND because I don't see many "must have" wonders. The ones I posted above are nice to have. The Kremlin is the most decisive but without a huge cottage base to support rush buying I think it will be underwhelming compared to the typical late game era. AGG/SPI Germany is the weakest of the group that I'd like to play, but tanks won't be far away and having a nice advantage vs. other armored units would be fun, as would giving Germany an opportunity to shine in its original form.
I thought some about whether or not England's Redcoats would be worth pulling AGG/ORG back into the keep pile from the slag heap but in the end I think conflict will begin a bit later than the era of rifles so I chose to pass. The India question is interesting, but the Fast Worker gets much more value over the course of a full game than it will here. And, again, workers are cheap enough that they'll be easy to build in sufficient quantity. So even if we need a couple more we should be fine. The combat worker role is diminished here compared to an ancient era war because units tend to have more mobility (tanks) or can be supported by units with greater mobile delivery (marines from transports and air support). I'm not sure anyone is going to be taken by surprise by a road appearing on a hill from out of the fog. For that reason, and because I rate EXP low in this format, I think India is out.
Looking at my "In" list, I'm guessing that lots of teams are going to prefer IMP/ORG because it is so obviously helpful to expansion and getting up factories. I'd put that as the overall #1 choice for several teams. I'm assuming that some teams won't value SPI as highly as I have. I think IMP, then ORG, then maybe PHI/SPI in approximately a tie but I could be wrong about that.
I could spend more time on this but I just don't have it now. Xenu, speak now if you disagree with the following or hold your peace.
1. Julius Caesar (Imp/Org) of Japan , Settler is 313h.
2. Asoka (Spi/Org) of Aztec , Settler is 322h.
3. Genghis Khan (Imp/Agg) of the USA , Settler is 332h.
4. Joao (Imp/Exp) of Carthage , Settler is 304h.
5. Fredrick (Phi/Org) of the Holy Roman Empire , Settler is 313h.
6. Gandhi (Phi/Spi) of the Khmer , Settler is 322h.
7. Montezuma (Agg/Spi) of Germany , Settler is 322h.
Brick, if you don't hear anything else from this thread by deadline, consider the above list our final ranking.
Posts: 7,658
Threads: 31
Joined: Jun 2011
I think I'd rate America and Germany a bit higher because they have uniques that will come into play, but the list looks good to me. Maybe move America to #2 and Germany to #5.
|
