Retorts again, especially Artificier and Runemaster

[Nelphine]

I personally would prefer cult leader to be at least +75% as a one pick retort. It requires too much investment of in game resources for it to do anything, which makes it far harder to use than most retorts - and unlike node mastery, it doesn't have a huge effect when you do get to use it, until late game.

Actually, staying as +50%, but giving like +2 power for every city in addition might be better

[zitro1987]

Cult Leader is quite powerful due to the unrest bonuses (higher taxes) on top of the strong mana bonuses, made even stronger with heavenly light, dark rituals. I think it's balanced at +50%

I really would like specialist to be the 2-pick retort based on page 1, with emphasis on faster research, not cost reduction.

[Seravy]

I'm suspecting faster research might be a bit overpowered as it's the only area the AI isn't getting a large bonus in, and higher tier spells just beat lower ones regardless of quantity. (Might be a problem on the AI bonus side though, but getting all my very rares before extreme AI has a single one is a bit excessive even for a Sage Master with Halflings or not?)

[Nelphine]

Considering what happened with my colossus nature experiment, I don't think its a huge deal. It does have a high opportunity cost to be able to do that and you can always capitalize on that.

[GermanJoey]

If anything, it'd be better to give the AI more of a research boost than to limit the player's ability to research. It's fun to get new spells!

[Seravy]

All right, time to make some decisions.

Artificier
Arcane spells cost 25% less to cast. Enchant Item and Create Artifact costs 50% less to cast. The wizard starts with Enchant Item already known.
I think this is the best we can do on this one. Do we want a new name? Something that implies cheaper arcane spells? (up to 9 characters)

Specialist
No Change, but fix the "also twice as hard to counter" side effect.
I believe the "twice as hard to counter" effect should be removed. This part might be what pushes this retort into the "must have" category.

Runemaster
Arcane spells are 25% faster to research. The wizard's spells are +100% more resistant to dispelling and the wizard's attempts to dispel other wizards' spells is twice as effective.
Not sure if it should be 1 picks without, or 2 with the arcane bonus. Probably best to keep at 2 picks, worried about it being too powerful and it's a huge ton of work to change pick costs, plus it breaks default wizards. "twice as hard to counter" needs to be removed to match Specialist. If 2 picks, maybe the Arcane bonus needs to be higher? Or maybe the dispel resistance needs to be 150 or 200%?". I'm worried that high dispel resistance might make buffed super stack tactic unstoppable again, but it would clearly make global enchantments and city curses more playable.

Cult Leader
No Change, but Cathedral cost will be lowered to 400.

[zitro1987]

+25% research is a lot less efficient than 25% cost reduction.

Cost reductions are like 1/0.75 = 1.33 times cheaper
research bonuses are 1+.25 = 1.25 times cheaper

Even then, it might be a tough choice for 2 picks unless you up the resistance by an additional +50% or increase the arcane research to around +40%

[Seravy]

+25% research is a lot less efficient than 25% cost reduction.

Cost reductions are like 1/0.75 = 1.33 times cheaper
research bonuses are 1+.25 = 1.25 times cheaper

In general cases, yes.

Specifically on Arcane spells, no. More efficient, but less useful.
You don't spend much time on casting Arcane spells usually, nowhere near as much as other spells. (summon hero or champion a few times but there are only 6 hero slots, rarely dispel/disenchant/disjunction - but those are already twice as effective. In combat you pretty much have Heroic Shout and that costs barely anything. Move fortress is also not something you want to use repeatedly.)

On the other hand, Arcane research bonus applies to Spell of Mastery. Which means you have it ready at least 20-30 turns earlier plus whatever you saved on the other arcane spells in the game. I believe in the Arcane realm, the research bonus is worth much more.

The resistance probably need to be higher to be worth the 2 picks though.

[Catwalk]

I feel that the Artificer strategy has been effectively removed, now that we can no longer get a 75% reduction on item creation. How about keeping the reduction as of 3.2 but also lowering base item creation by 50% for all wizards? Meaning that compared with current numbers, non-Artificer wizards get a 50% reduction and Artificer wizards get a 75% reduction. As is, I doubt many players bother much with item creation. At -50% you might see players create a few handy items in most games, and Artificer would be a strong pick.

I don't like putting the arcane bonuses on Artificer, though. If anything, it should have the magic weapons bonus from Alchemy. It's completely out of character for Alchemy and perfectly in character for Artificer. While flavour isn't everything, it does have some relevance.

[Seravy]

As is, I doubt many players bother much with item creation.

That's what I thought myself but seeing people play told me otherwise. I was like "omg he is making a 6000 cost artifact when he could summon 5 demon lords for that". There is an explanation though, a well equipped hero is still the most powerful thing in the game - no matter the cost, it's worth it (or not but players seem to be willing to take that risk).
Artifacts are just too powerful to be cheaper, even though the cost is extremely high - I considered halving costs but decided against it a long time ago.
To prove what I'm talking about, there was this guy who used Artificier for getting guaranteed wins on Impossible - easy wins at that, which is why the Create Artifact spell had to be removed from the retort.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA-yaU6H9Mg


It's worth saying the artifacts used in this game are not even top tier 3k+ cost ones, just ones affordable in the first 100 turns of the game. A +8 Defense plate with 3 other enchantments is much, much better than these.

I don't like putting the arcane bonuses on Artificer, though. If anything, it should have the magic weapons bonus from Alchemy. It's completely out of character for Alchemy and perfectly in character for Artificer. While flavour isn't everything, it does have some relevance.

I agree with this but I don't want to ruin Alchemy. It would probably also make Artificier too strong - both the magic weapons and the free spell are early game advantages which is a bit too much on a late game retort.
One thing is certain, I didn't like the Arcane cost reduction on Runemaster - having bonus to dispel power AND a cost reduction on dispelling in the same retort is redundant. Separating them gives the player an option to pick both for even better dispelling, instead of forcing it on them.
Honestly, Artficier is still a powerful retort with just the 50% item cost reduction due to how good heroes are - although it's a bit less omnipotent now that Death has a proper counter to heroes, a good hero still wrecks any other wizard by itself, and even a Death wizard if well played (Inner Fire grants immunity to Wave of Despair)
I tried to make low end items (like water walking, +1 attack etc) have a low enough cost that they are affordable even without Artificier and they are a pretty good deal if you have the retort.