CML hallucinates another undeserved victory

[Mardoc]

Your start:



Fog does not actually lie this time, although you're certainly welcome to read more into it than is actually there

[CML]

Thank you

Simming at present,

[Alhazard]

Well thanks to you guys this game is already going fantastically. I am looking forward to Tyrone Biggums as buro capital generating more commerce than the World Series of Dice

As an old Starcraft player I fret about these things:

1. Opening build order—something like worker, warrior of course. But then do we make a settler or a second worker? What's a good ratio of workers:cities? In SP Deity you really get cornholed for fast expand but here the danger isn't maintenance so much as dying.

Opening tech stuff seems pretty BW+Pottery-oriented but then I see everyone neglect stuff like Monarchy until t100 and get confused. Is there a good source for this? All the info on this site is super-decentralized to the point I have trouble even figuring out who won half of the PB games I've browsed.

2. Recon—in Starcraft I clicked under 100 APM but still got a lot of famous (White-guy) scalps. How, you ask? Playing Protoss, of course! But also a good intuitive grasp of what my opponents were doing and how to deal with it. On one hand Civ4 does not have the Corsair or the Observer. But it does have demographics and I do not know how to read them. Is there a primer on this somewhere?

Everything else is peachy keen, though

-Li'l Jon

1. You really need to sim and figure this out. For example settler or 2nd worker first is definitely not an easy decision. Not sure if I can comment further since I am going to be globally lurking.

2. Here is a good guide. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=467694. Just beware that the game tracks decimals, not sure how much, which is pertinent to land, population, and wonders.

[CML]

Thank you Al!

I did some simming last night and this morning (well, 12pm) and I don't think EXP vs. IMP matters too much in the grand scheme, though I would like to play one of the two with a start that wants us to use hammers.

Hunting/Mining and Fishing/Mining seem about equal, the latter we can't leverage by going BW and whipping the worker (into what?) nor using a bigger hammer tile but the micro works out well to grow to exactly size 2 and exactly size 3 just in time for the chop to go into the Settler. However, there are fewer improved tiles, so Hunting/Mining, being more beakers, is just better. Khmer is the only civ with those techs that isn't a blank until late, so we should prioritize Khmer, especially if the starts are mirrored ... I doubt they are, though, as this one is pretty restrictive, most civs won't work, and it'd just be asinine if everyone had to pick a {hunting, mining, fishing} civ.

EXP goes better with Khmer than IMP (50h Barays), but IMP would be. Lurkers, how fast do JC and Mehmed tend to go? Seems like a stretch to get them on the wheel, but it also seems pretty bad to go with Khmer with the second pick. Is it not bad?

Last thing: Is that water in the fog in the lower left? Of course there is a delta to the right. If we were willing to go for a slightly slower start we could do a naval civ like Carthage or Portugal, if there's lots of water we do want to be ORG for the Lighthouses, but EXP for 40h Cothons would be pretty sick too...

[CML]

OK, world size is large slowing down techs (large for 9p? hrm) and according to the mapmakers' thread "the rice has fresh water." The starts are mirrored then? I would post in that thread but the walls have ears

So I guess that's a lake over to the right and we should prioritize a hunting/mining civ?

[Rusten]

I love wordy threads -- I'll be watching!
As a fellow old starcraft/wc3 player I wish you luck in your transition. Even to a protoss player. I'd be the 200+ apm zerg who'd still lose the game.

Every ZvP game I ever played:




Not yet looked at settings/map discussion so a little reluctant to reply, but yes, I think starts are usually mirrored.

[CML]

Hahahah awesome. I heard that scene was filmed that way cuz Harrison had a bad bout of IBS?

Believe me, you wouldn't lose to me at ZvP. I guess I might get you with some reavers. In War3 I would have just killed you with Ancients of War but then they made an obvious and justified balance change and I stopped playing

I'm gonna sim real quick, if the world size is larger then we should be trying to tech to BW more quickly. If we're trying to tech to BW more quickly we should be working 3/0/2 over 2/1/0, so EXP loses some value. IMP and ORG both look more appealing, too.

Thoughts on going JC or Khmer p2?

On the wheel, Aztec or HRE with ORG UB's wouldn't be the end of the world. Not having Hunting/Mining or Hunting/Fishing would be bad, though

[mackoti]

hello, there rusten are you dedlurking  our CML as well? Some time ago you said you want to play a game as well, did you missed the signing for this one?

About all this simmimg he start I dont think is that important, getting a city 1 turn later doesnt compensate for having a civ which let you latter to be realy strong, or which offers you  a way to save loads of  hammers or gave a you unit which you can realy use.This been told lets see, we are second in pick getting Zulu or Inca shouldnt be that hard, actualy one of them is quaranted so i realy think this should be the focus for first part, and i think we will get a very decent leader agg or pro depending  which one we get when the pick returns.

[Rusten]

Hi there! I suppose I am dedlurking. I tried to follow one game while reading all the threads but quickly lost interest as I could never reply to anything without fear of spoiling or having to hold back information. Killed the interaction.

I did indeed miss the sign up (as per usual), but this time I couldn't play anyway due to travels. I'm in Moscow until July and then backpacking California and New Zealand+Australia in July and most of August. If a game starts late august/early september (or later) then I'd like to play. I'm more settled down then. If possible I'd appreciate a PM if something is being organized just in case I miss it again.

On picks: Need to read up on the RtR mod again. But yeah, can't go wrong with Inca/Zulu.

[Rusten]

Hahahah awesome. I heard that scene was filmed that way cuz Harrison had a bad bout of IBS?

Believe me, you wouldn't lose to me at ZvP. I guess I might get you with some reavers. In War3 I would have just killed you with Ancients of War but then they made an obvious and justified balance change and I stopped playing

Man, that'd make that scene even better! He's such a legend.

Ah the joys of WC3 RoC. Mass AoWs Night Elf and mass casters Orc. Thank god (or should I say Russell Wilson?) for the TFt expansion.