[Spoilers] Lazteuq and RefSteel's PB51 Adventure

[Lazteuq]

Thanks for the explanations.
I've never planned micro to that extent before, but I'm working on a spreadsheet plan. I think I like the slightly slower path to a first settler. I definitely like the idea of having a second warrior. Not sure yet though. When people talk about simulating, does that mean recreating the capital area in Worldbuilder?

About tech choice: I would normally prefer to get Pottery, then do Mining-Bronze Working, because I don't want the first cottages to be delayed until roughly turn 45. Is bronze working really that critical? I guess that depends on horses. If we can't find horses very close, then maybe Pottery will have to wait.


After confirming ocean is  to the north, I decided to loop around south again to begin exploring land which is closer to potential neighbors. When a warrior gets done, I'll send him up north slightly, but I'm assuming that land will be uncontested in the first settling race. Nice land up there with corn and marble. I need to remember that wars can start at turn25, so the Warrior shouldn't wander very far.

[Hollybombay]

When people talk about simulating, does that mean recreating the capital area in Worldbuilder?

Yes. Tile for tile recreating.

[RefSteel]

About tech choice: I would normally prefer to get Pottery, then do Mining-Bronze Working, because I don't want the first cottages to be delayed until roughly turn 45. Is bronze working really that critical?

Generally speaking, food and hammers (especially food, especially without RtRmod) are much more important than commerce in the early game, because they are the main components of the snowball that allows you to get more of everything. Cottages are important, but I think not as important early on as getting workers and settlers out via slavery (and such chops as we have available, and even mines, depending).

Also bear in mind (no pun inten... actually, you know what, let's say I intended that) it's now possible for animals to attack, so landing on good defensive terrain can be important! Even with the best terrain, a scout would have bad odds against a bear. There are some tricks to keeping a scout alive longer (like making one move onto flatland to check for bears and then staying on or moving to a tile you know can't be attacked - though staying on flatland is dangerous with panthers abroad too!) but they come with costs of their own (usually reduced scouting per turn) and won't always be possible or wise. So: Good luck keeping our Scout alive and uncovering lots of important tiles! Because luck is what it comes down to most of the time....

[Lazteuq]

Hey Neighbor! Giraflorens met our scout on Turn 7. I wonder if he will continue exploring east and find our capital.
Plan is to move scout SSE, then curve a bit more west.

After messing around in WorldBuilder for a while, I see that delaying pottery is not a big deal. Especially if the second city is on nearby along the eastern floodplains, workers can start putting down farms for it before the settler is even done. On the other hand, if we settle in the northwest, that city would be able to work the gold tile for lots of early commerce. But we need more intel first.
Also, I hadn't realized before how good FIN is on a map with all these inland lakes.

[RefSteel]

Ooh, a new friend and/or bitter enemy! Cool! I might try to put together an Uninformed Opponent Analysis of giraflorens/naufragar and their pick if I have time and if there's interest, but I'm not sure when.

Plan is to move scout SSE, then curve a bit more west.

Sounds like a good plan! (Wildlife permitting, as always...)

I agree with your assessment of Pottery timing too. Granaries will be really valuable when we can build them, but we'll need BW anyway to find the production we need!

Also, I hadn't realized before how good FIN is on a map with all these inland lakes.

True - although this being basically BtS, FIN is ridiculous anyway. Just one more advantage to overcome as we go forward with the game!

[Lazteuq]

Turn 12:

• Capital is starting a warrior, worker is improving the rice
  
• Researching Mining for 7 turns.
  
• 2 horses nearby
  
• The animals are definitely roaming now
  

Demos:

• Everyone has built a worker first(not exactly surprising)
  
• The lowest land area is still 16000.
  

[RefSteel]

Sounds good! Also, wow, that's a lot of little lakes!

Looking ahead to turn 17, there's a minor micro trick you may already be aware of, but that I figured I might as well post just in case:

After finishing the rice farm (which the capital can then work) on T16, the Worker will be free to move to the cow, but with the cow two tiles away, the Worker won't be able to start pasturing the cow until T18. Since both the cow and the river grassland between the rice and cow are flatland tiles though, we don't have to "waste" any worker turns: After finishing the rice, the Worker can move just 1E toward the cow via the grassland, put one turn into a Road there, and then immediately CANCEL its orders, leaving it free to move again the next turn (when of course it goes 1E to the cow and starts a pasture). Later on, whenever we want to finish that road, it will only take one more worker turn of labor instead of two, since tiles "remember" partial tile improvements.

It'll be exciting to see what the Scout reveals next as it continues around to the south; here's hoping it doesn't get munched by one of the furry things with teeth!

Meanwhile, from those land scores and some math, I infer, not too importantly:

- At least two other players have neither coast nor lakes anywhere in their BFCs - and probably more.
- Almost certainly, exactly one player has exactly 5 tiles of coast and/or lakes (and/or ocean) in their BFC; everyone else has 4 or fewer.
- My best guess is that five other players (so six players including us) have all-land BFCs, and that the remaining four have coastal access. If that's right, then two of the coastal players are on little inlets with just 2 coast tiles in their BFCs, while one has either 3 coast tiles or 2 coast and 1 lake, and the last is the one with 5 variously coastal and/or lake and/or ocean tiles.

We'll see how good that guesswork is eventually!

Let me know if you'd like me to post any specific micro plans, critique plans you've formed yourself, and/or offer more general tips like the one above - or if there's anything else you'd be hoping to get from a dedlurker like me! Also, if none of those sound especially fun, I'm happy to just hang around to respond to things you post, answer questions, and maybe occasionally make up silly stories based on the events of the game!

[Lazteuq]

Thanks for your enthusiasm, RefSteel. You've already been more helpful than I could have hoped for. I don't have any specific ideas right now, but I am wondering what to do after building the settler. In singleplayer, I'm always unsure whether I should grow to size 4 and then 2-pop whip another settler ASAP, or if it's better to build another settler the slow way, or maybe build a second worker, or a granary if possible...? Of course it's map-dependent...
I did not know about that road micro trick, and I'll definitely use it now.
I am a university student doing final exams this week, so next week I will have far more dedication to this game. After this Friday (Turn 18-ish) I will post a city dotmap.

[RefSteel]

Wow - thanks, Lazteuq! I'm glad I could be helpful!

If we only have one Worker when our first Settler comes out, another Worker is going to be needed quickly - definitely before another Settler, or our cities will end up working unimproved tiles a lot, which is never great: We want to get good resource tiles improved ASAP!

Turn 18 will be the next branch point for managing Enchilada. I can discuss the options there in more detail if you like. All three of the rice-first plans I posted above assume that we work Rice + flat grass forest (2f/1h) for just that turn to complete the Warrior, before switching back to Rice + Cow or Whichever Tiles the Governor Wants on the following turn, but you could also take things in a different (and possibly better) direction from any of them.

I had a chance to do a little simming, by the way, and it looks to me like we can get Bronze Working on T31 if we grow to size 3 before starting the Settler, or T32 if we aim for the earliest realistic Settler at size 2.

More importantly: Good luck with finals! I hope your (presumably online) classes have been enjoyable and interesting for you!

[Lazteuq]

I'm done with school now, so it's time for a big update!

• Enchilada just grew to Size 3 and is now working on a Settler
  
• Worker just finished the cow pasture, unsure what to do next. That's the big question right now. I'm tempted to farm the floodplain 1N2E of Enchilada.
  
• The valiant Scout won his first fight with a Lion and is healing for a turn (0.8hp right now)
  
• Borders will expand in a few more turns, revealing some of the tiles I intentionally avoided so far
  
• I totally messed up that worker micro trick and accidentally built the road on that middle tile. OOPS.
  
• We get Bronze Working the same turn the settler is done, so the second city could be used to secure copper.
  

City Sites: (My deepest apologies if you are colorblind) (or if you are a graphic designer)
I only dotmapped the areas we know, but of course I don't want to rule out the southern and eastern regions which should be explored shortly.

Yellow: This is the highest food option, with 2 corn, floodplains, and potential to already have a floodplains farm available to work before it's even built. I think I like this as city #2
Lime Green: We don't have fishing, so I don't really want a coastal second city. Lime green looks nice, but it's not a very high food city, even with fishing.
Purple: The new Warrior has just revealed that this land is kinda bad. Only 2 floodplains on that stub of a river, surrounded by desert. Maybe there is something else in the fog, but the Warrior can't afford to wander far from home.

I'm guessing the map is cramped enough that White and Pink city sites will be contested by Giraflorens' borders. I still don't know how far away they are. I'm unsure if Giraflorens knows where we are either.