[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 39:

Poor Vanilla Ice’s nerves are getting shot to hell by this Lizardman.
Everytime he looks back there’s a green shape visible on the last hill.

Moved SW-SE to try and get sight into Cull’s borders, no luck.
Guess he’s heavily forested too.



I‘m not sure Cull is going to be overjoyed at me bringing a Lizardman to his borders, but if asked, we’ve never seen it before.

Over at Kwythellar, nothing much happening.
Beefy joined Clogz on the hill, Bob put in one more turn of farming.

Clicking end turn expanded borders as planned, and we grew back to 3 pop, working the incense. So much for that worldspell.



Next growth is in three turns.
I could reduce it to two by working a 2f/1h forest tile for one turn, but I prefer the 3:1 conversion ratio of 6 commerce to an extra 1f/1h.
Mysticism in 8 turns, next warrior in 3.


Demographics:

• Cull:
  • Gained a tech this turn.
    I now need to look into both Bob and Cull, but if memory serves that’s Cull first self researched tech.
    I’m expecting Archduke to get his second soon also.
    
  • Barbs.
    Looks like I was wrong about Archduke starving his city – it was Cull who went down to 2 food/turn. From the power graphs, he’s also lost at least 1 warrior like me.
    
  • His culture graph is amusing: it’s a touch hard to see but the line is not straight.
    The bendiness comes from the Religion civic that Cull started in. It grants +10% culture in cities, enhancing the palace output to 2.2 culture/turn. Those fractions only get counted when they equal a whole unit, so it wobbles.
    
• Bob:
  • Seems to have used his new population towards production rather than GNP.
    
  • His current output is 11f /6h GNP 14. The decreased GNP after researching a tech straight away suggests something with no prereq.
    
  • We know he’s got 3 x 3f/1c tiles which accounts for all the food (2+9).
    So that leaves 2 pop unassigned for 4 hammers and some commerce?
    Means he’s working at best 2 riverside plains hills (2h/1c), and at worst 2 normal plains hills (2h)? Yuck.
    • Let’s try the GNP: 8 (palace) + 6 (worked tiles inc 2 riverside ph) = 14, no prereq, + 2 culture = 16. ie already over.
      
    • How about 8 + 4 (worked tiles, normal ph) = 12, no prereq, + 2 culture = 14. That works.
      
    
    But oh dear Bob, do you not have some forests?
    
• Sareln’s back to growth, similar GNP, no surprises there.
  
• And now back to our favourite test subject, Selrahc.
  • GNP tells me he’s not running his scientist (good).
    
  • Crop yield of 15 tells me he’s trying to regrow his capital at a decent rate. To be expected.
    There are two combinations:
    • Working 3 x 3f tiles at capital, + base tile = 11 food.
      Leaves 4 food assigned to his new city, base tile + working a 2f/x tile.
      
    • Working 2 x 3f tiles at capital + 2f/1h forest + base tile = 10.
      Leaves 5 food for his new city, base tile + working a 3 food tile split off from the capital.
      
  • Mfg Goods at 6.
    Slightly harder as he’s running God King (+50% capital production) and gives various combinations. Plus the possible complications of Pacifism with it’s -20% military unit production.
    What I can say though:
    • Working 2f/1h forest at capital and 3f tile at new city doesn’t work. Comes up short at 5h/turn. (3 x 1.5 + 1 = 5.5 = 5h/turn)
      
    • So he must be working the 3 x 3f tiles in his capital (makes sense) and a 2f/x tile in his new city.
      
    • The only way to make the numbers work is to have the new city working a 2f/2h tile:
      2 x 1.5 (capital base tile + palace) + 1 + 2 (new city base + worked tile) = 6
      …And the only tile I know of that has an unimproved output of 2f/2h is a plains forested deer.
      
    
    
  
  I don’t have that sort of tile on my map yet, so either there’s one in the fog around Selrahc, or I’ve made a mistake somewhere. Interesting.
  

Note to self: figure out techs!

.

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo:

Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 4:52:09 AM
Subject: Greetings

Hi Cull!

After many many years of stumbling around looking lost, my scout Vanilla Ice has finally come across your borders.
He's hurt, tired and absolutely no threat whatsoever. In fact, for the last 5 turns or so, all messages I've received from him have ended with the words "I'm getting too old for this".

Up til now, the Kuriotates have met with the Illians, Svartalfar and yourself. If you have contact with anyone else I would really love to try and meet them. Failing that, my scout will heal up, move around your borders, and then probably continue to follow the coast.

Any warnings about local barbarian activity would be really helpful!

Kind Regards,
Pb, Eager to meet you Boy-King.

Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 5:00:58 AM
Subject: Re: Greetings

Hey PB!

I sent an email to your gmail: ********* when I met your scout when my borders popped last last turn. I have met Sarlen, Selrach, and you, which I what I think you've met as well. Local barbarian activity is high, but nothing out of the ordinary. If I may ask how many tiles or about seperate your scout from your capital? I'm also intersted in potential NAP, as well as generally goodwill.

Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 5:01:41 AM
Subject: Re: Greetings

@Boy-King: XD
I think I'm less than half the age of most of the people at RB.

I missed his first email below:

Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2010 4:54:01 PM
Subject: Hello

Just wanted to pop by and say as my capital borders popped, I saw your scout. If I may be so bold, are you directly north of me, or in another direction altogether? I am also interested to see who else who have met. I've met Selrachc, and Sareln. Who have you met? I am interested in NAPs, border agreements if appliable, as well as general good-will(ex. tell each other who we met), and look forward to working with you in the future.

Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2010 5:59:24 AM
Subject: Re:Greetings^2

Hey Cull,

Nonono, you're a crusty old dwarf, don't forget that! =D

As I said, I'm sorry about missing your email.
I only signed up to gmail to get the IM working, and haven't been using it at all.

With the contacts, you're right, it sounds a lot like we've met the same people.

Regarding my capital location, you're going to have to forgive me if I keep quiet for the moment.
I don't think anybody knows where I am yet, and I would like it to stay that way until I have a better idea of how friendly my neighbours are.
What I can promise you is that:
1)we are miles and miles away from each other,
2)once one or two other players know where I am, I will freely volunteer the information to you.

Finally, with NAPs:
I promised my lurkers I would try and get through this game by signing as few as possible. I'd much prefer to use common sense and build relations over time, rather than relying on a piece of paper.
In the case of you and me, I can't see us ever having a border dispute due to the distance, so there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't trade and cooperate.


I hope the above doesn't sound like I'm trying to keep you at a distance.
I specifically stated in my thread at the start, that you were one of the people I'd like to work with in this game.
Nothing I've seen about this map has made me change my mind.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Honest and Friendly Boy-King.

PS: as mentioned, my scout will skip round your borders, stopping on a hill along the way to heal.
Any warnings about barbarians on the edge of your South borders would be greatly appreciated!

Mean it all.
Except for a certain trailing Lizardman of course.

[SilentConfusion]

He completed a Sage Council on T35.
40 hammers at 13h/turn is 3-4 turns depending on overflow.
Apparently he had at least 1h overflow from the settler, so let’s say it took 3 turns.
Therefore settler completed T32, first started moving T33.
Founded city T38, therefore 6 turns of movement, 6-12 tiles travelled (keeping in mind lack of roads, heavy forests and possible (likely?) warrior escort.)

When you say Settler completed T32 I assume that means end of turn 32 and that is why the Settler cannot be moved until T33. Is that right? Is this something that comes up in PBEM games? Do player builds get completed right after their turn and before the next person goes?

[pocketbeetle]

When you say Settler completed T32 I assume that means end of turn 32 and that is why the Settler cannot be moved until T33. Is that right? Is this something that comes up in PBEM games? Do player builds get completed right after their turn and before the next person goes?

Yeah took me a little while to get my head around it also.

When you click end turn in a PBEM, food/production/research are applied there and then, to be ready for the next turn.
So buildings, units and research also complete and pop, although the tech splashscreen does not appear until next turn.

If you look at T37, all the screenshots are from that turn only, but Mysticism advances in some, as well as Kwythellar's numbers changing.

• • The only way to make the numbers work is to have the new city working a 2f/2h tile:
    2 x 1.5 (capital base tile + palace) + 1 + 2 (new city base + worked tile) = 6
    …And the only tile I know of that has an unimproved output of 2f/2h is a plains forested deer.
    
  
  

I don’t have that sort of tile on my map yet, so either there’s one in the fog around Selrahc, or I’ve made a mistake somewhere. Interesting.

This was nagging in the back of my mind yesterday.
Finally figured it out.

Plains hill plant.
I also forgot about possible forested gl hill sheep/pigs, but I guess that's a lot less likely as it requires natural spread (?), whereas deer often start in forests.

Either way, clearly Selrahc knows I'm on to him and is discovering new and fiendish ways to confuse me.



That means I'm now looking for a plains hill plant and a 2f/1h resource, which is a bit more common.

Note to self, tile yields:
Plains wheat 2f/1h
Gl river cotton 2f/2c
Gl sheep 3f
Glh Pigs 2f/1h
Tun river deer 2f/1c

Plains wheat, glh pigs, and not mentioned in there but plains sheep from location 2.

Locations 1, 2 and 4 have the right type of resources, but which contain those types of resources and have plains hills?
Only 1 and 4.

Site 1 has one plains hill, 2S1E of the plains wheat.
Is it very likely? I don't think so, doesn't pick up the cotton, can't work riverside cottages, something closer to the actual dotmap is a lot more likely imo.

Site 4 has two plains hills 1E and 1NE of the glh pigs. But those hills are very unlikely as they're virtually adjacent to Svartalfar borders.
Tile bleed however does suggest more hills to the W and S of the pigs resource.

So in order of likelihood, I'd say Selrahc has planted his new city:

1. In the fog S or SE of his capital, somewhere I don't know.
   
2. In the fog close to Site 4. (semicircle of 5 tiles that can pick up the pigs yet could be unrevealed hills).
   
3. Plains hill at Site 1.
   

I'd say 2, 3 and 5 are out of the running. Which suits me just fine.

.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 40:

Vanilla Ice continues to be followed by an over-amorous lizard.
Moved SW, no need to fear a Khazad border expansion.

And we’re going upmarket today, with a layered image: (just don’t look too closely at the trees)



Love the river desert tile, though gotta feel sorry for Cull seeing as that’s a tile in his capital BFC.


Over at Kwythellar the lion I’ve been looking for has finally showed up, just as Beefy and Clogz were about to move out.



Moved them NE, with the aim of moving E onto the plains hill next turn
Would promote Clogz to Guerilla I and hope to induce it to attack, thereby giving Clogz a second promo.
If the lion moves onto the hill, I start swearing and consider fortifying in the forest with Woodsman I.

Bob the worker moved E and starting farming the gl tile. It’ll be worth 4f in Agrarianism.


Demographics:

• Score: Selrahc and Cull gained 1 population each this turn.
  
• Rival Crop Yield Best: 16 (Selrahc up from 15).
  If we assume Selrahc is now working a forested glh at his capital and feed those numbers back into our previous Mfg model, that gives:
  4 x 1.5 (capital) + 3 (new city) = 9h/turn. Spot on.
  
• Rival Best Power: 16k, up from 14k.
  Either Cull at 13k building a warrior or Selrahc/Bob building a scout. Check graphs next turn.
  
• Sareln lost a warrior last turn from power graph.
  
• Rival Av land area is fluctuating because of recent cultural border expansions (I hope).
  I’ll need to watch it to find out when the second new city is planted by someone, as Rival best will obviously no longer tell me.
  

Lastly, spotted a problem with last turn’s GNP: Selrahc is too low.

That’s because his new city maintenance is –ve to his overall GNP; which is going to make things a touch harder.
Especially when you factor in that he may have to reduce his research slider to pay for maintenance, and if he does then God King’s +50% gold function will start affecting his capital etc.

Question is:
Am I munchkin enough to go find out what a city planted ~6 tiles away costs in maintenance on a large Emperor difficulty toroidal map?
Answer:
Guess so! -2 gp

Last turn his GNP was 17.
Assuming 100% research:
8 (palace) + 2 (base city tiles) + 1 (3f/1c tile at capital) +2b = 13, * 1.2 = 15, + 4cp -2c (maintenance) = 17.

This turn his GNP is 16, which I’ll assume has gone down due to his increased pop. Could be wrong.
Depends on how much gold he popped from huts (if any at all).

[v8mark]

Do you know, I was really disappointed that I came to the end of this thread then. Superb stuff pb, keep it up - I'll be rooting for you.

[pocketbeetle]

Do you know, I was really disappointed that I came to the end of this thread then. Superb stuff pb, keep it up - I'll be rooting for you.

Thanks v8mark, I know that feeling too.
It's that sinking feeling as you realise you're now stuck with everyone else at a plodding turn/day rate.

Even worse is when you're reading a webcomic or thread, and know how many pages are left, yet still just cannot stop yourself.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 41:

Vanilla Ice still being stalked by Lover Lizzie.
I’m thinking I may have to drop an email to Cull and say sorry, didn’t expect her to be this blatant.



Over at Kwythellar, Beefy and Clogz prepare for their showdown with the lion.

One thing I noticed, terrain bonuses don’t seem to affect animals?



I think I knew this already: I remember being disappointed when I caught an animal on a desert tile and noticed that it didn’t get the -25% defense modifier.
However if I’d remembered that last turn, I might have thought twice before committing myself to moving onto the hill.

The Woodsman I promotion gives +30% strength in forest/jungle/ancient forests.
That means +30% on attack and defense, which would have resulted in around 80% odds vs the lion.
It’s too early to be voluntarily taking coin flip battles, but 80%?
I might have taken that.

Anyway, Beefy and Clogz moved onto the hill, Clogz promoting Guerilla I which gives +40% hill defense, so that’s +65% defense total, str 5 on defense vs the lion’s str 3.
Hopefully it a) attacks and b) doesn’t do too much damage. I don’t want to delay too long.




Demographics:

• Score: Sareln now size 4 pop.
  
• Rival best GNP 20.
  At first I thought this could be someone else getting a Calendar resource online like me.
  It felt too early for Selrahc to be working his scientist again, I thought he’d wait for size 5.
  But then I noticed that his numbers had fallen back to the same levels as T39, so I guess he took that pop increase last turn and stuck it straight to work as a sci spec.
  That means he’s running a food surplus in his capital of +3. Not a pretty number.
  
• Cull’s Crop yield.
  I haven’t paid enough attention to Cull, I should have seen this sooner.
  His crop yield at size 2 is too high: 10. Even when he was knocked down to 1 pop, he still had 7 food.
  Subtract the 2f base tile, gives him a 5f tile. GNP of 13 tells me that he’s working two riverside tiles, so like Sareln he has an irrigated 5f/1c rice.
  We know the second tile he’s working from Vanilla Ice: a floodplain, explaining the crop yield of 10 currently.
  
• Sareln built another warrior. Keep going dude.
  
• This is important: Selrahc built a Scout last turn.
  Frankly I think he’s crazy trying to push through units while in Pacifism, particularly at this early stage.
  More relevantly, him building a unit for the last couple of turns screws with my model so far. More below.
  

The Problem with being Selrahc:

First off, the highest Mfg goods last turn was 9, yet graphs this turn show no-one went above 6.
That’s not a problem, it can be explained by Selrahc reassigning the 1f/2h glh forest to a sci spec straight away.

Quick check of GNP:
8 (palace) + 2 (base city tiles) + 1 (3f/1c tile at capital) +2b +3b (sci) = 16, * 1.2 = 19, + 4cp - 3c (maintenance) = 20. Fine.

The fact his Mfg goods is still at the same level, after finishing a scout last turn, suggests he is probably trying to build another unit. So far, so good.

Here’s where it gets bad.

Pacifism, which Selrahc is in, gives +50% gpp/turn and -20% military unit production.
That means the hammer bonus in his capital for the last couple of turns has been +50% -20% = +30%.
And if I try and put that back into my estimates before, everything falls apart.

· Crop yield of 15 tells me he’s trying to regrow his capital at a decent rate. To be expected.
There are two combinations:

• Working 3 x 3f tiles at capital, + base tile = 11 food.
  Leaves 4 food assigned to his new city, base tile + working a 2f/x tile.
  
• [strike]Working 2 x 3f tiles at capital + 2f/1h forest + base tile = 10.
  Leaves 5 food for his new city, base tile + working a 3 food tile split off from the capital.[/strike]
  

· Mfg Goods at 6.
<cut>
What I can say though:

• Working 2f/1h forest at capital and 3f tile at new city doesn’t work. Comes up short at 5h/turn. (3 x 1.5 + 1 = 5.5 = 5h/turn)
  
• So he must be working the 3 x 3f tiles in his capital (makes sense) and a 2f/x tile in his new city.
  

This is back on T39, Selrahc has a size 3 capital, a size 1 new city, running 15 crop yield, 6 h/turn.
I believe he’s working 3 x 3f tiles in the capital, and getting 4f/3h total from his new city.

• Changing the hammer multiplier now means:
  {1 (base tile) + 1 (palace)} x 1.3 (capital building scout) + 3 (new city) = 5h/turn. Wrong, as graphs on T39 show 6h/turn.
  
• Okay, so let’s say he’s working a 2f/1h forest tile in the capital.
  • That makes:
    {1 (base tile) + 1 (palace) + (1 tiles worked)} x 1.3 (capital building scout) + 3 = 6h/turn. Cool!
    
  • But then the crop yield is:
    2f (base tile) + 3f + 3f + 2f (forest tile) + 4f (new city) = 14. Too low.
    
• Switching back to 3 x 3f in the capital doesn’t work.
  
• Trying to get 5f from the new city by working a 3f tile there doesn’t work.
  That means it’s only producing 2h, so 4h has to be coming from the capital, which is even worse.
  
• Trying to get 4h from the new city doesn’t work.
  The only combination would be a plains hill plant with the aforementioned plains forest deer, giving new city output of 4f/4h which:
  a) is getting absurd,
  b) means the capital is running at 2h/turn, I’m not even sure it could have produced a scout in the timeframe.
  

And no matter how many times I run through the numbers, I…can’t…make…it…work.

The only thing I can think of, is some kind of event to give +1 food or hammers in his capital over the last couple of turns.
I’m racking my brains, but I can’t think of any event which could fit.

You can get +1 food from turtles, but that’s only on a water tile. There’s a -1 food event for a land tile (Muris goblins) but no +1 food event? There's truffles, but that gives + commerce too...
And I can’t think of any +1 hammer events at all.

If it is an event, then it’s happened at one of the worst possible times, right after Bob cast his worldspell and Selrahc founded his second city.

I caught the last one (I’m feeling good about it now) because there is a separate graph for culture, but this one is being hidden under the Crop and Mfg graphs, and at this point I’m not sure how I can take it apart to find out.
Clearly the Civ Gods felt that making me build the Pact of Nilhorn wasn’t enough of a penance.

For now, I just have to accept that I can’t follow Selrahc exactly.
I’ll still try of course, but until this becomes clearer I’m completely stumped.

Finally the question remains: Why was he so keen to get a Scout?


Techs:

Bob:
Last turn that he researched a tech: T24 -> Assigned Agri or Anc Chants
Next turn he researched a tech: T37

Therefore gap = 13 turns
GNP during period: 15-16 ie research 13-14.
13 turns x 13.5 = 176b

At 172b, that nicely fits Calendar.

I’d say that so far, Bob is following a perfectly predictable tech line: beelining Agristocracy, heading soon for CoL.

He currently is researching something with no prereq, Anc chants or Crafting.

Cull:
Last turn that he researched a tech: Hasn’t.
Next turn he researched a tech: T39

Therefore gap = 26 turns
GNP during period: Before Stasis briefly reached GNP 15, but after Stasis has barely reached 13, ie 11 research.
Est 80b before Stasis.
After Stasis 19 turns x 11 = 209
= 289b total.

Harder this one, in part complicated by his free tech from a hut. Starts with Crafting.
The nearest fits are either Mysticism or Mining at 215b, possibly taking into account a tech switch.
However because we know that he’s currently running around farming stuff with a worker, that means it must be Mining, with the free tech from the hut being Agriculture.
Not as crazy as I first thought then.

Currently he’s researching something without a prereq, either Exploration or Ancient Chants.

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo:

Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 12:07:58 PM
Subject: Dwarves

Hey Selrahc,

Just to inform you that the Kuriotates' scout, Vanilla Ice, has once again survived the wilderness to find a bastion of civilisation.
In this case a race of short, stumpy, gold-loving humanoids, who talk with a Scottish accent. (Scots?)

As free info, their capital seems to be located in a zig zag fashion to your East, so if you picture a 'V', you and Cull are on the tips, while Sareln is in the trough.

So far Kuriotates exploration has been very much limited to Vanilla Ice only, as the barbarians have kept us hemmed in.
Hopefully that should change and we can start exploring more of the fog soon.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Scoutmaster and Always Prepared Boy-King.

I then went to write out a message to Sareln, checked the save for approximate tile distance, at which point I realised part of the above was bullshit.
Not a smart thing to do when you know they’ve already got contact.

One about-turn later:

Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 12:17:22 PM
Subject: Dwarves: Quick correction

Hi Selrahc,

Sorry quick correction:
I just pulled up the save to check, and it would be fairer to say that Cull is directly due East of Sareln, maybe a couple of tiles South.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Scoutmaster and Sometimes Prepared Boy-King

If Cull finds out that I’m shopping his location around I’ll probably take a diplo hit, but he’s far enough away that for now I don’t care.

Now Sareln:

Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 12:13:38 PM
Subject: Dwarves
Hi Sareln,

Just to inform you that the Kuriotates' scout, Vanilla Ice, has once again survived the wilderness to find a bastion of civilisation.
In this case a race of short, stumpy, gold-loving humanoids, who talk with a Scottish accent. (Scots?)

As free info, their capital is located 13E 2S of your capital.
This is approximate and may be a couple of tiles out as I don't know exactly where your city is.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Scoutmaster Boy-King

I told Sareln the exact distance as I want him to start focussing on how close the Illians are to him.

I also gave serious thought to telling Sareln to look for a second Illian city planted in his direction.
On the plus side, Sareln might start realising the Illians are looking to be aggressive, on the downside it could trigger increased communication between the two.

As a general observation: I expected to be bombarded with NAP offers as soon as I made contact with players, yet Cull was the first one to do so.

Now, I can understand why Selrahc didn’t offer one, he’s no doubt trying to decide which of us to kill.
But why Sareln hasn’t, I’m not sure. Either bad diplo or that treacherous Elves thing again.
Either way, no need to rock the boat until I know for sure.

I probably should have included a question of that type with the message to Sareln (eg how goes things with the Illians?).
Now if I ask it in a follow up, I’ll probably have to reciprocate.
Meh.

Then I got this gem from Selrahc:

Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 2:22:52 PM
Subject: Re: Dwarves: Quick correction

Thanks for that. In return let me tell you that I've encountered the other set of people who have a too close relationship with horses. Archduke's Hippus are down in the far south of the map, in a near direct line with my capital. This leaves just the vampires uncontacted. It's possible that they're also in the southlands. Starting to get a slightly clearer view on the map, but I never even had a scout, so things are still a little blurry. I'm going to try and rectify that soon however. I'll try and keep you updated with any interesting finds.

Regards
Selrahc

Jackpot!
And another +1 diplo for Selrahc I guess.
He didn’t need to tell me. I wouldn’t have found out for ages.

So that’s now:
-1: You are a serious rival.
+2: You shared your information with us.

Question is: is Archduke close enough to Selrahc to enter the competition that nobody wants to win?
Rhoanna of the Hippus is a decent civ with a strong worldspell, I certainly would consider taking her out.

And the downside to Selrahc locating Archduke, is that he now probably knows I’m not in the SW.

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:05:21 PM
Subject: RE: Dwarves: Quick correction‏

Dear Selrahc,

I feel the need to warn you:
Up until now we have found the Illian people to be both friendly and welcoming, but any further cracks of the equine variety may result in our -stable- relationship ending in a very un-neigh-bourly dispute.
Please consider yourself on tenterhoofs.

Awful puns aside, thankyou for sharing that info, it’s greatly appreciated.
Can I push it further and ask for a rough estimate of tile distance from your capital?

Also, I noticed from your comments and the power graph that you produced a scout last turn.
Is it coming in my direction?
If so, let me know. I may be able to help out.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Hide-and-Seek Champion Boy-King.

The “I may be able to help out” originally read “I may be able to organise a welcoming party”.
But then I realised antagonising the aggressive aspiring-to-Godhood madman was probably not a good idea.

That scout build is sending alarm bells through my head.
[b]I need time. [/b]It’s still 20 turns or so before I can claim to have Cartography.
So if it is coming in my direction, I’ll probably try to send him NW then SW rather than due W, with the added bonus that he might get caught by a bear or one of the skeletons if he strays too far N.

I’ll even tell him my capital location if necessary.
The 100% priority is that he doesn’t find out I have nowhere to expand except into him.
If a scout comes round and sees all that coastline, it won’t take him long to figure it out.

Shortly after receiving Selrahc’s email, along came Sareln:

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:47:53 AM
Subject: RE: Dwarves

Glad to hear you made it. If Selrahc hasn't told you yet, Hippus are
south of his capital. I had already found them for certain recently,
but the information is much appreciated.

Sareln just keeps on underperforming in the Diplo stakes, particularly against Selrahc.

If he knew where the damn Dwarves were, and had told me, it would have saved Vanilla Ice going in a big circle and not having to outrun reptiles.
There’s also the possibility he’s screwing with me again.

Best case scenario: He found the Dwarves after our last conversation and chose not to tell me/didn’t think of it.
Worst case: Knew all along.

The second-hand info about the Hippus would have been great stuff, -if- Selrahc hadn’t beaten him to it.
So I guess that’s just unfortunate timing, but these things count.

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:45:54 PM
Subject: RE:Greetings^2

Hey Cull,

There seems to be a Lizardman following me?
He's moved to the same tile as my scout for the last two turns at least.

Have you had a previous problem with Lizardmen coming from that direction?

Either way, I'm sorry if this causes you hassle, I'm really not sure what to do.
Vanilla Ice is currently damaged and has zero chance of beating it.

If you have any suggestions, let me know.

Regards,
Pb, Slightly Unsure Boy-King.

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:25:24 PM
Subject: RE: Dwarves^2‏

Hi Sareln,

Thanks for the reply and yes the rather frigid winter King did mention it.
He sent me a note around the same time as I received your message.
How are finding him btw?

He was very friendly in helping us contact each other, but equally I'm not rushing to tell him where I'm located yet.
I'm still not sure how borderlines etc will resolve themselves.
But then admittedly, I've got squares 7 tiles from my capital that are still fogged.

Kind Regards,
Pb, Village Gossip Boy-King

I am…a fishwife.

.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 42:

Cull sent a brief response to my message about the Lizardman, telling me to move 2 tiles South.
So I did.




At Kwythellar, the lion didn’t take the bait, so Clogz stays on the hill for another turn, Beefy moved 1NE onto the mana resource.
Would have preferred to move North, but no doubt the lion would then decide to be perverse and attack Beefy rather than Clogz.

Clicking end turn resulted in Kwythellar growing back to size 4 and popping a warrior.
Next growth is in 3 turns, which will decrease to 2 when Bob finishes the gl farm next turn.



Also realised I could have just checked for new cities being planted via the Diplo screen. :rolleyes:



So he’s called it Lapland has he?
Well, at least I no longer have to keep calling it ‘New City’ every time.

North Pole and Lapland, wonder what’s next. Santa’s Grotto?


Demographics:

All quiet on the Eastern front.
Sareln built a warrior, GNP graph confirms Selrahc is running a sci spec.
I believe Selrahc’s score increase of 22 is due to the tiles claimed by his new city, but will check.


Quick note about Orthus:

Orthus is a strength 5, move 1 Barbarian axeman with the hero promotion (gains +1xp every turn, capping at 100) and has an axe which gives an extra +1 str to take him to 6 str overall.
If someone hasn’t explained all this somewhere in one of their threads I’ll be very surprised.

Suffice to say: he’s both hell and helpful.
Can be very annoying to kill, but his axe is captureable when he dies, gives +1str to any unit using it and also allows that unit to attack multiple times ie Blitz promotion.
Combined with a move 3 Kuriotate unit, that can be useful.

Problem is: he’s going to be turning up on T51, which is approximately 9 turns away.
At 3 warriors, I don’t have the strength or numbers to kill him, so I’m both gambling and praying that he doesn’t show up on my tiny spit of land.

If he does, expect histrionics from this thread.

The only thing I can think of, is some kind of event to give +1 food or hammers in his capital over the last couple of turns.
I’m racking my brains, but I can’t think of any event which could fit.

Had a thought yesterday: Ancient forests

There are four types of forests in FFH (not including jungle or scrub).

• New forest
  +1h to base tile output, no defense or movement penalty, +0.25 health.
  Eventually self upgrades to normal forest.
  
  
• Normal forest
  +1h to base tile output, movement penalty, +0.25 health.
  Can be upgraded to Ancient forest.
  
  
• Ancient forest
  +1f +1h to base tile output, movement penalty, +0.50 healtht.
  If running Fellowship of Leaves Religion, enemy units have a 5-15% chance to encounter a temporary Treant (str 10 unit) when they move into a culturally owned forest tile.
  
  
• Burnt forest
  +1h to base tile output, no defense or movement penalty, no health bonus.
  Burnt forests happen when set alight with fire magic, eventually regrow to New forests.
  

So if one of Selrahc’s gl forest tiles have upgraded to an Ancient forest, that tile would be worth 3f/1h.

Now I need to go find out if it’s possible for a non-Elf non-FoL running civ to spawn an Ancient forest.

Quick and dirty link to FFH terrain types:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=340148