[SPOILERS] ARRR Ye Scurvy Dogs! Hannah the Irin

[Mardoc]

Sciz had control of the Malakim for a while after Thoth's computer fried, and gave them back when Thoth returned.

And yes, Thoth built the Form, that was confirmed by Mr. Yellow.

No one has circumnavigation yet, and yes, that's very tempting. I don't think workboats will manage it, but maybe it makes sense to research up to Optics and send forth a caravel (or Pirate) or two. That'd give me a net +2 on my boats. Pirates have a base speed 4, add 2 to that and suddenly we're talking about real money.

I probably should research Horseback Riding just to unlock Mobility; Haste won't work on undead and demons, which will be the bulk of my army whether I stick with OO or go AV.

Then of course there's Raiders, although it sounds like Thoth, at least, is taking that into account.

I think my best option there is Pirates, all in all. Well, or other, more normal ships. Optics is middling expensive at the moment, but it could be worth picking up anyway if it's required for me to field an effective force.

[Selrahc]

No one has circumnavigation yet, and yes, that's very tempting. I don't think workboats will manage it, but maybe it makes sense to research up to Optics and send forth a caravel (or Pirate) or two. That'd give me a net +2 on my boats. Pirates have a base speed 4, add 2 to that and suddenly we're talking about real money.

Any plans for "the Black Wind"?

[Mardoc]

Any plans for "the Black Wind"?

Put me down for a firm 'maybe' on that one. Actually, the real problem is that right now I don't have plans, just brainstorms and aspirations. I need to sit down and figure out what I can realistically hope to accomplish, what's the priority and what can wait, etc, but that probably won't happen on the weekend.

[Mardoc]

Not a lot to report. I've revolted to Octopus Overlords, continued my previous course. Tomorrow (well, at least sometime this week), I plan to spend the time to make plans. In particular, I need to figure out the right balance between finishing the peaceful expansion, finishing spreading OO all around, building a navy, building an army, exploring, circumnavigating, building infrastructure, meeting everyone else, assisting Sir Yellow some more, and what tech path I should follow. I figure the place to start, after I'm rested, is with laying out, in detail, what's involved in each of those goals, what resources I have and expect to have, and pros and cons for all of these.

Sir Yellow still has 4 cities, although Thoth's power is getting even more astronomical. I'm clearly ahead of the Malakim in GNP, though, and as long as Sir Yellow holds, in expansion, so the Malakim/Bannor war could turn out to be a very good thing for the future of the Lanun (prior to being consumed by the Overlords, of course).

[Mardoc]

Not a lot to report. I've revolted to Octopus Overlords, continued my previous course. Tomorrow (well, at least sometime this week), I plan to spend the time to make plans. In particular, I need to figure out the right balance between finishing the peaceful expansion, finishing spreading OO all around, building a navy, building an army, exploring, circumnavigating, building infrastructure, meeting everyone else, assisting Sir Yellow some more, and what tech path I should follow. I figure the place to start, after I'm rested, is with laying out, in detail, what's involved in each of those goals, what resources I have and expect to have, and pros and cons for all of these.

So, plans. Well, let's start with cataloging the goals
Finish peaceful expansion, phase 1:
This is finishing grabbing the cities that currently have signs on them.
There are 6 of them - the treaty city to the west, two cities to the east, three cities in the backlines. I already have 1 settler and 3 workboats toward this goal, so I need still:
5 more settlers
3-5 more workers
18 more workboats (although 2 of them won't be needed until cities make it to the third ring)
A transport for the treaty city
7 Monuments or Zealots or Cultists - prefer the ones later on the list if possible.
2-3 more garrison warriors.

This is the goal that helps all the other goals happen faster, so I'm content to leave it as priority #1. I can see that I'll need at least one of Phoenix/Phiber Optik to stay on production; workboats, OO temple, missionaries, etc, to keep it happening at a balanced pace. There's not a lot of value in a new city without garrison or worthwhile tiles to work.

Finish peaceful expansion, phase 2: Any extra cities I can - a Springed desert, islands, etc. I'm not sure entirely what I'll end up needing here, and it's sort of odds and ends anyway. Knowledge of the Ether, a Mage Guild, an Adept, a settler and worker and garrison. Exploration, a transport, a settler, garrisons, and worker for an island, along with a handful of workboats. Maybe there's a final spot somewhere in the north that just needs to be found and walked to. This goal is going to be both more expensive per city and inherently unknown, so it makes sense to put it lower priority and get to it later, as possible.

Finish spreading OO - 3 additional Zealots, Cultists, or luck beyond what I need for the new cities. And since OO doesn't do me a lot of good otherwise, 12+ temples. This is why I really ought to knock out Priesthood, to let me build the temples prefab. Which also requires Philosophy.

Build a navy - this depends on what I intend to do with it. Do I need to fight, to get sea supremacy? Probably not, but if I do, then I need Pirates at a minimum, preferably also Frigates, for which I would need Smelting + Iron Working. If it's just for army transport/speed, then Pirates probably work the best

Circumnavigate - I'm 90% sure I need at least Optics for this, and 2+ caravels/Pirates/The Black Wind. If I wait too long, someone else will probably try for it.

Explore - meet everyone, find any handy islands to settle, etc. I've started a poor-mans' version with workboats and Cartography, which only works if my diplomacy is good. A more expensive option is to use ships that can take passengers, and embark a Hunter with Parrot. An alternate version is to use an Optics ship, either Caravel or Pirate that can also explore enemy territory. I could potentially combine the two. This requires anything from where I am now, to also Optics, Pirates, Hunting, Hunter's guild, hunter and parrot per ship. Pirates can't carry hunters without losing Hidden Nationality, so probably caravels make more sense. Although, losing 2-3 tiles of potential visibility inland isn't that big a cost, and Pirates would be a lot more useful in wartime. Going to have to keep thinking about which option fits the best here.

Help Mr. Yellow - with a NAP with Thoth, pretty much my only option here is resource trades. That is easy, with the exploration, and impossible without, so it's really just a reason to prioritize exploration a tad higher.

Build an army - my only realistic option here is probably Warriors to Drown, Cultists, perhaps Stygians if I also research up to Fanaticism. I need to research Mind Stapling at some point for Saverous. Lunatics are probably not worth building, but if I get enough happiness, maybe Asylums will be? I suppose Lunatics would have more value in a defensive war - train one turn, attack and die the next, use other units to deal with the collateralled down remainder. I ought to build some Pirates for fast transport of this army. How much do I need? Well, that's going to require more information - how much does Thoth have, is it worth hitting him or should I find a different target, etc.

Found Esus - all I need is to research Way of the Wicked, Trade, Deception. Maybe with Horseback Riding thrown in. Low/medium priority - it's worth income if I found Nox Noctis, which would also grant that very nice hidden ability. Fortunately I want its prerequisites for other reasons already. Fortunately spreading it is just money. After I get my scientist, I probably should start a priest to get the shrines for this, AV, and OO.

Found Ashen Veil - research Way of the Wicked, Knowledge of the Ether, Philosophy, Corruption of Spirit. Then, of course, also spread it around. This is a low priority move, I'm afraid, although at least I want all its prereqs for other reasons as well. It'd be upgrading from one battle religion to another. If I end up extending the NAP with Thoth, then it would become a better idea.

Infrastructure - I could use lighthouses all over the place, Markets, Elder Councils, at least one of Mage Guild/Hunter's Guild/Training Yard (maybe? Probably not the best idea since Swords are already obsolete). I could use Sea Havens a bunch too, once I get some foreign trade going. And Harbors for the trade routes and potential Boarding Parties, if I make it to Iron Working and ever want to build one.

Wonders - I want the Heron Throne, probably in city 3 (the one on top of corn to the SW). I need to found the city and research Masonry for this. The Great Lighthouse would be handy, although at 402 hammers, no multipliers, it's got a heck of an opportunity cost. Perhaps right after the Heron Throne? That would be a city with 5/3/7 coves and 3/1/3 coastline, so it might work out.

The City of a Thousand Slums, Tower of Complacency, Pillar of Chains, Tower of Eyes - all would be useful, but none are probably worth the cost at the moment.

Plus at some point I really need to build Dereptus, the Summer/Winter palaces, and so on. These almost fit under infrastucture, though.

So, ultimately, where am I going with this? Well, expansion will continue to make everything else on the list easier, so it's number 1. Therefore my tech path after Cartography will be Philosophy -> Priesthood. My cities will continue as they have been, although hopefully I can add at least MafiaBoy to the list of contributors, and maybe squeeze out a workboat or two from the coastal new cities like Mindphazr.

Most of the rest of my goals require information before I can judge them. This makes exploration and circumnavigation come next. After Priesthood, I'm thinking Hunting -> Optics, so I can get a good feel for the entire map - I'll need some Caravels or Pirates, Hunters, and Parrots. I need to make sure that Hawks can fly from a ship sometime between now and then, but even if they can't I want them to keep eye on my neighbors. I'll also right now send forth a workboat or two to the east (can't go north without paying a toll to the Malakim).

Then, it'll probably be time for infrastructure - grab Masonry quick, Knowledge of the Ether, and either AV or Esus. Perhaps also detour for iron since all my army options can use it. Meanwhile, my cities will attempt to balance between infrastructure, warriors to Drown, and Cultists. Hopefully around this time my GNP will be strong enough that researching Fanaticism isn't quite as punishing, and I can add in some Stygians. Plus, of course, some Pirates for transport, and The Black Wind for support.

Finally, a quick build of an army. Preferably sudden enough that Thoth can't really react well; if I plan offense, surprise is useful, while deterrance is helped by him seeing what I'm capable of. Which I want will depend on how I'm progressing and how strong/weak he seems to be. That is, if I still have a lot of peaceful expansion possible, if I think I can win a war, etc.

[DaveV]

Sounds like a good plan. My advice: make sure you can quickly put 5-6 bronze warriors or other good defenders into any city near Thoth. Remember that his priests get free mobility promotions, and move through desert as if it were grassland.

The Mirror is in a nice spot, since occupying it gives you good visibility over the central desert.

[Mardoc]

Order was founded in a distant land this turn. No one's converted yet, though, so I don't know who.

Aside from that, my settling party approaches city8, soon to be named Curador. Workboats are on their way, but I didn't time that perfectly, there will be a turn or two where Curador's not working coves. I'm dancing with a Goblin near MafiaBoy with a separate Warrior; I have good odds, but I'd prefer he attack me.

My next settlers are due in 4 and 6 turns. The first one should go to the treaty city in the west, while the second heads toward the last eastern site. Thoth still hasn't founded his treaty city, so maybe I'll end up being able to walk up the coast. Even if not, the culture battle there will be in my favor the longer he waits . I intend to set it down as close to T100 as I can manage; the sooner begun, the sooner it can contribute to the rest of the empire, after all. Phoenix is working on a Temple of the Overlords, so probably MafiaBoy will pick up the slack of warrior production, when its market finishes in two turns.

Cartography came in this turn; next turn I'll save up again, then do a 100% rush to Philosophy.

I'm pretty sure I can trust the NAP, but having a few extra Warriors around to keep Thoth untempted is probably a wise move. Besides, they can all become Drowns and hence switch to offense quite quickly. I'm really hoping my new cities help with the maintenance limit, though; I'm up to 12 gold/turn in unit costs at the moment. Granted, that will shrink slightly as the workboats become coves, but it's still not a number I like.

And Mr. Yellow still holds! I'm pretty amazed, and going to send him a message asking how the war's going.

[DaveV]

Yeah, don't build too many warriors and kill yourself with support costs; just make sure you can support a threatened city quickly by building or moving units. You have to build some of the units ahead of time in FfH; you can't just chop/whip an army from thin air like in BtS.

[Mardoc]

Turns out it was WarriorKnight's Elohim who went Order.

In other news, the Goblin moved up next to MafiaBoy, so I attacked and lost a 80% battle, but another warrior was easily able to clean him up.

My settler is in position; next turn I will have 6 cities. I took a slight detour for Phoenix - it's building a Trireme, then back to the Temple of the Overlords; I realized that I don't have a transport for the treaty city in the event Thoth does build his in time, and I really don't want a settler sitting around. I'm definitely glad that MafiaBoy is starting to be a decent city, because I'm going to need the help producing non-settlerish type things.

Maybe I should even have Phiber Optik go for non-settlers for a bit; it'll be the last of the reach cities, and I suppose I could slow down plopping cities down in order to ensure the ones I do have get their workboats and garrisons in a timely fashion.

And, a reply from Mr Yellow

I'm a little puzzled to what Thoth is trying to do here, though he seems content to just choke me. He hasn't bothered to send much more units towards me, even with that rising graph.
Anyway, the capital and the copper city is pillaged to heck and beyond, but is still standing with walls almost up. I'm staying alive through my 2 untouched cities and have almost completed Construction for cats.

Currently i've been trying to get copper from someone else and it's possible i can...by faraway Sheaim through Elohim and elven lands! In addition Nyktorion has been building up decently and i'm planning to push Thoth away from my borders now.

Anyway, i'm curious to where he is stationing his 2nd army. Nyktorion has been giving me continuing hawk reports and have seen very little unit activity behind the lines, even in his capital!
It could either mean he knows where to hide it from us or he is building up against you.

I don't think he's building up against me, but I can't completely ignore that possibility either. I'm planning to reply to Sir Yellow something along these lines:

Catapults make a lot of sense to me; decent base strength plus those excellent retreat odds, and in your own territory, their movement speed doesn't matter nearly as much.

I've seen a sword or two (and also a barbarian Hill Giant standing where a sword used to be :-) ) but nothing that would make me worry too much. I will be heading to Hunting in the next 10-20 turns, though, and I've got a city pretty close to his borders, so I ought to know more by the time that comes around. I'll just make sure not to dangle too much temptation in front of him. I'm pretty sure that Thoth doesn't know about the Mirror of Heaven, because he's several times put a unit just outside of where I could see it if I didn't have the Mirror.

Does he know that Nyktorion is supporting you? That would help answer the question of hiding his army. Certainly if I were in his shoes I wouldn't want you to expect what's coming.

As you may have deduced, my army is going to be primarily Overlords based, so I ought to have an easy time taking his copper if/when we war. It's going to take a while yet to build a bunch of temples and troops, though, so pretty much all I can do is hope to get you another copper or horse loan. The main advantage for me of this route, though, is that I can, if necessary, quickly Drown a bunch of warriors and have a much more secure border.

I'm debating if I should tell him I've signed an NAP with Thoth; also debating if I'm giving away too much info here. I figure the copper gift was enough to at least get him on my good side, so the information is unlikely to leak, but news of a NAP might change that.

[Mardoc]

Pretty much all of the news for this turn is visible in this screenshot:



I finally broke 100 as my maximum research rate (with cities configured for hammers, anyway). Curador is founded, with alas two turns before I'll be able to work a cove. And we have more information on the island (I hope) to the east - it's a hill, a cow, a forest, and a jungle, plus whatever's on the other side of the trees. That makes it definitely worth settling - a hill and some coast is probably enough to justify a city, actually, but I'll send one of the approaching workboats around it before it heads off to find people. At some point I also ought to scout around Brigit and see if there's anything out that way.

Of course, the cities I can walk to come first, but still, it's excellent news that I've probably got another guaranteed city site available.

Meanwhile, on the western coast, the settler and Trireme will both finish in 2 turns, and then start up to the treaty site. I'm afraid that I won't manage exactly T100, but I should be close enough to it to make Thoth glad he negotiated, I think. 2 turns after that, my settler for the eastern coast finishes. Meanwhile, I'm debating what needs to be built where. MafiaBoy has moved on to warrior production while I let it grow. Between losing one to the goblin and stretching them out over more cities, I need more warriors at the moment anyway. Mindphasr will contribute some workboats as soon as it finishes its market. The new cities won't build much right away except themselves, of course.

I really could use a couple more workers; I'm only working a couple unimproved tiles, but I want that number to be zero, and of course the new cities will strain the worker force as well. I want 3 settlers yesterday, and I need OO missionaries/workboats soon as well. I think, tentatively, that Captain Crunch will continue on another settler while Phiber Optik knocks out some workers, and Phoenix alternates between Zealots/Cultists and workboats. Although I would like to grow Phiber Optik up to its new Overlords-induced happiness cap, as well. Hmm, maybe if I let it take a short break to mass produce workboats instead of Phoenix?

In large part, this is because my remaining mainland cities nearly all rely on either jungle being cleared or 2nd ring resources/coves, so there's not a lot of point to found them without workers, culture, and workboats. And on that note, still no free religion spreads.