Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[kjn]

Well has their power been going up when they whipped? I thought it hadn't.

Previous whips were as of T101 (2 1-pop). Then they've whipped a lot this turn, but the two in cities where we have visibility appear to be of buildings costing 60 (OR bonus). I think one is a granary, and the other a stable, but we'll have to see.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Well has their power been going up when they whipped? I thought it hadn't.

I thought the working theory is they are whipping horse archers and then moving them back in the queue to pump out with Theocracy before the hammers expire. Thus no power increase.

[novice]

Well has their power been going up when they whipped? I thought it hadn't.

I thought the working theory is they are whipping horse archers and then moving them back in the queue to pump out with Theocracy before the hammers expire. Thus no power increase.

That's his point. Barracks and stables would show up as power increases.

[scooter]

Thanks for the input. The suggestions are all over the place and frequently conflicting with each other . I'm mostly happy with this draft, so the changes are pretty minor. Here they are:

Decebal,

We have no plans for war currently, but we need to protect ourselves. We currently have a neighbor that is refusing a longer term NAP while whipping in military buildings and teching military techs, so we're concerned that they have plans to attack us. That neighbor is you guys . We're not interested in war this early in the game when there is still land to be settled. However, you guys are showing signs of war buildup mode, so of course we are concerned. A 10 turn NAP cooldown is not much time at all. Either way, you guys are avoiding any talks of a longer NAP, so until you are willing to sign a longer NAP, we're going to make sure our defenses are extremely strong. I hope you can at least understand that type of prudence. If you guys are building up to attack a different neighbor, we're of course happy to give you a longer NAP so you can do that without worrying about us. You don't seem interested, though, and that's concerning to us.

That said, we have NAPs with all our other immediate neighbors, and they all last longer than the NAP with your team. So to be clear, if you try to get aggressive with us, we will be extremely prepared to handle things. Your teching of Theology and the units you are pre-whipping for the eventual Theocracy bonus has not gone unnoticed . However, I do hope we can come to an agreement where conflict won't be necessary as it'll just hurt both of us.

We would also prefer we get an agreement about the land between our cities. Specifically, any plant from either of us between Brick By Brick, Tlaxcala, and Xothicalco would be A) on very bad land and B) very aggressive. We both would get much better peace of mind to just leave that land alone and settle elsewhere. We would be happy to promise not to settle in that region if you will do the same. Let me know what you think about this.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

1) In paragraph 1: I slightly adjusted the wording, but I'm going to defend this sentence: "If you guys are building up to attack a different neighbor, we're of course happy to give you a longer NAP so you can do that without worrying about us." We are calling them out on war buildup. They are obviously in that mode right now, and we're telling them "We know you are building up for war." If they have a target (likely), there are two options. 1) us 2) somebody else. This sentence (and the one following it) tell them we know they are aiming for somebody. If it's somebody else, we'll help them. However, since they are seemingly not interested in that, we are concluding they are targeting us. So I think we should keep that sentence in.

2) Paragraph 2: Added this: "Your teching of Theology and the units you are pre-whipping for the eventual Theocracy bonus has not gone unnoticed ." Otherwise, this is unchanged.

3) As of right now I'm hesitantly keeping the last paragraph in there.

Thoughts?

[darrelljs]

I think you should send it .

Darrell

[kjn]

I'm not sure they're pre-whipping units yet. They've have some power increases (mainly on T101), but we know they've whipped out one barracks, and that their techs has been with a strong military focus.

I still think you should cut the last sentence of the last paragraph. We're not really asking them on what they think there.

[Ceiliazul]

I agree with KJN. That last sentence is one for the negotiating table. they gotta come to the table first.

[Old Harry]

I like it, feels like the right tone for what little I've read of CivPlayers. I've struck out some fiddly stuff.

Most important question is are we sure they're pre-whipping units? Seven and Novice seem to think they are, KJN doesn't. If we are sure that will be a killer bit of info, if they aren't it makes us look dumb and paranoid (and maybe gives them ideas), so if the guys in the know don't agree I'd leave it out...

Decebal,

We have no plans for war currently, but we need to protect ourselves. We currently have a neighbor that is refusing a longer term NAP while whipping in military buildings and teching military techs, so we're concerned that they have plans to attack us. That neighbor is you guys . We're not interested in war this early in the game when there is still land to be settled. However, you guys are showing signs of war buildup mode, so of course we are concerned. A 10 turn NAP cooldown is not much time at all. Either way, you guys are avoiding any talks of a longer NAP, so until you are willing to sign a longer NAP, we're going to make sure our defenses are extremely strong. I hope you can at least understand that type of prudence. If you guys are building up to attack a different neighbor, we're of course happy to give you a longer NAP so you can do that without worrying about us. You don't seem interested, though, and that's concerning to us.

That said, we have NAPs with all our other immediate neighbors, and they all last longer than the NAP with your team. So to be clear, if you try to get aggressive with us, we will be extremely prepared to handle things. Your teching of Theology and the units you are pre-whipping for the eventual Theocracy bonus has not gone unnoticed . However, I do hope we can come to an agreement where conflict won't be necessary as it'll just hurt both of us.

We would also prefer we get an agreement about the land between our cities. Specifically, any plant from either of us between Brick By Brick, Tlaxcala, and Xothicalco would be A) on very bad land and B) very aggressive. We both would get much better peace of mind to just leave that land alone and settle elsewhere. We would be happy to promise not to settle in that region if you will do the same. Let me know what you think about this.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

[novice]

Defer to KJN on the whipping stuff. I haven't done C&D, I just get the impression they've been doing it from reading KJN's cliff notes.

[scooter]

I'm good with lopping off the last sentence and with Old Harry's two corrections.

I realize we can't say with certainty that they're actually whipping and stacking queues. Kjn, what do you think the likelihood is that they're actually doing that? I'm good with bluffing on that a bit if it's 75-80% or so likelihood, because it would be a really fantastic display of power (and messes with their heads) if we correctly call that one. I don't see much downside if they come back to us and go "uh, we're just whipping libraries, chill."