American Politics Discussion Thread

[Jowy]

I don't think the pandemic would be over in a blink of the eye, but I 100% agree the profits should be limited and knowledge freely shared. Moderna has been proven better than pfizer and is easier to ship and store and yet pfizer keeps getting big gov orders. I do not think this coincidence....... Do I think there is a huge conspiracy to limit the vaccine effectiveness to keep people sick? I don't put high odds on it, but there is always the chance I'm a naïve fool.

There is a lot in that post and I'm not as familiar with the history enough.

I was planning a big post pre Jan 6th about democracy and its many failings vs its strengths, so some I will cover there.

You can find out about what is in Pfizer's gene therapy in 75 years. That is how long the government said it would take to release the information.

Are you implying the governments who buy these vaccines don't have this information?

[Mr. Cairo]

Absolutely nobody has any responsibility to incur personal risk to their health for the sake of any others' fears.

You are so right, which is why I don't want the unvaccinated going around with their increased risk of contracting covid and unduly burdening our healthcare system. Just because some people are afraid of vaccines is no reason why I or anyone else should have to have operations delayed or even cancelled because resources are stretched so thin taking care of mostly unvaccinated covid patients.

The same is true of masks, just because some people are afraid of masks doesn't mean I should have to interact with them and increase my own risk of contracting covid.

Also washing hands. I suppose you think people who handle food shouldn't be required to wash their hands after using the bathroom? My own risk of getting food poisoning far outweighs someone's dislike of washing their hands.

To speak in a way that you should comprehend:
My health and my safety should in no way be compromised by those who are afraid to do the most basic things to protect themselves and those around them from disease. My life is worth more than your inconvenience, even if that means the unvaccinated are restricted in their activities.

[Bobchillingworth]

You do realize that the Covid bioweapon was made in China with US government funding? Both China AND the US are guilty of crimes against humanity. Dr Fauci is a big proponent of "gain of function" research. He also funded the torture of beagles who had their vocal cords cut while sand fleas ate their heads off. Does no one pay attention to what happens in the world?

Well, someone doesn't, that's for sure.

[Mjmd]

Lets do an analogy.

I have 3 children. Names have been changed but the two oldest are Anne and Jack and both have eczema. Youngest hasn't shown any signs luckily.

Anne has luckily mostly outgrown, but she was always really good about letting us put various special lotions on her. She understood that even though it was cold and stung a bit it was to make her feel better overall. We also put her tights and zip up pajamas so she wouldn't be as tempted to scratch. She is 4 atm and had a flair up recently and let us know and for a couple weeks we put stuff on it and she got better and its forgotten about.

Jack is a whole different animal. When his gets bad he scratches until he is bleeding. He will take off his socks and pajamas  to do so. Last winter in our fairly cold upstairs bedroom we would sometimes find him basically naked with blood all over the sheets. All over the floor during the day ect. Jack unlike his sister does not like that the lotions feel cold and have a mild sting. Unlike his sister he doesn't understand its to make him feel better and will struggle to stop me from putting it on him. Its gotten bad enough at points that we got an outstanding prescription for a steroid based medicine, but through a strict lotion routine we've never gotten to that point. Thankfully he appears to be also outgrowing and this winter doesn't look to be as bad so far.

While I love Jack, I wish he was more like Anne, but you are bound to have some Jacks in the world. Also obviously Eczema obviously isn't contagious and Jack and Anne don't have their mother telling him "well children bleed all over the place anyways" or "well its just going to flair up again".

We sadly are in a situation where one partner is spreading medical misinformation. I want to very much emphasize that the argument for liberty vs actual medical data should be separate and not combined (you can argue for liberty but also encourage people to mask and get a shot), but that isn't the political world we live in. For most diseases in modern history the prevention of hasn't been political and that in and of itself should tell you how far we have fallen.

[T-hawk]

My life is worth more than your inconvenience, even if that means the unvaccinated are restricted in their activities.

And we're back to the concentration camps, where you want to lock up people for no crime.

[Mjmd]

Lets get something straight

Current Chinese concentration camp



Area for people deemed detrimental to public health

Please stop using the term concentration camp.

[Mr. Cairo]

My life is worth more than your inconvenience, even if that means the unvaccinated are restricted in their activities.

And we're back to the concentration camps, where you want to lock up people for no crime.

No, I didn't. Please stop deliberately misinterpreting my statements. Imprisoning someone is a lot different than keeping them from going to a restaurant or the movies. Considering a lot of people are starting to come around to the notion that the unvaccinated shouldn't be given much treatment or even let into hospitals if they catch covid, you should be thankful that minor restrictions are all that's being enforced.

"No crime"? So if it is made a crime you'd be OK with it? I don't think so, so don't talk about legality. Would you also argue that people who are caught driving under the influence shouldn't be punished in any way? After all, they simply made a personal choice about what they put in their bodies and what they chose to do afterwards. How about seatbelts? Hell, how about driver licensing in general? Surely your safety when crossing the road means nothing when compared to someone's right to drive a vehicle regardless of their ability or capacity ? (/s)

I personally am opposed to forcing the entire population to get vaccinated. Philosophically I believe in the right to take one's own life after all. But I don't agree that one should be allowed to unnecessarily risk others' lives. And if employers want to require their employees and/or customers be vaccinated and wear a mask, they should be allowed to. And that includes the government, and their employees (and maybe even their customers).

[darrelljs]

Quick, someone let Aaron Rogers know he’s got a new source for vaccine information even better than Joe Rogan’s podcast!

Darrell

[Cyneheard]

Initial post removed by request of other forum member

This is terrible advice in every way imaginable. Vaccines are better protection than getting sick, and a lot fewer consequences.

I'm not even going to start on the medical ethics issues.

[Miguelito]

You would need a doctor willing to violate their Hippocratic oath to infect people with a harmful disease.
Also it would not have any positive effect on public health; a percentage of those controlled infections would take up hospital and ICU beds and you'd have the health systems collapsing all the same. Well maybe they wouldn't spread as much knowing they're infected, but who would trust the crowd whipped rather get the disease than the vaccine to follow through with a quarantine?