[Spoilers] Commodore as Darius of the HRE

[Commodore]

"Bluff, bluff, bluff,
Bluff the Mr. Nice Guy..."

Referencel

Everything is ready. I think I'm maybe a leettle bit over-prepared. /famous last words. My cats are aboard the galleys and the chariots are ready to roll out.



Meanwhile, The Duke and friends are growing twitchy.



And Nemedia is secure unless he's holding onto waaaay more power than his graphs show.



...why do I have a "doom doom doooooom" feeling?

Oh, yeah, MP newbie here. Well, here you have it: Watch as the bungling first-timer bumbles his way into certain doom, his unmarked grave (and thread) a stark warning to those who blithely think they know what they're doing. Or, alternately, a mean man punches out an unsuspecting neighbor while on the other side of the world the teams there run away with the game.

[Ceiliazul]

Why couldn't you have talked about these offers back when you were expanding into my face, when you were on top of the world? Dangit dude, I like you, and I hope we can have good relations after this, but I've built up so much military that this is the only win path for me now. Sigh.

Hey he's killing you with kindness.

Actions speak louder than words, and Avignon was a call to war. Don't forget that. As far as 3gpt for silver, yeah thats great for you... but OB is much more important to him. You are the LAST trade partner with France, and probably worth better than 30 gpt to him in trade routes.

MNG is really really good at diplomacy, but he's serving his own interests here. If he continues to be rational, he will someday admit that Avignon was too aggressive, and if the tables were turned he would have attacked too.

My 2 cents: take the chariot, name it "white feathers" and park it in the capital during the whole war. Per his conditions, it will never be used against French troops. You're going to need MPs anyway soon enough, right? If that's too harsh, return the chariot unharmed after the hostilities as a proverbial hatchet to bury.

[Ceiliazul]

Consider putting some defense on the jungle peninsula. Solid choke and you can fort the tile for a total +75 defense.

If he has galleys to hit Nemedia, your window of vulnerability would be only until Engineering comes in, at which point that tile is within reach of your capital... and the only route for galleys would give your visibility before they could hit.

(You'll want to fort the peninsula anyway soon for a canal, right?)

[Ceiliazul]

MNG cannot see the Trireme in this shot or the forest 1W of it, right? Also, to make landfall on turn 84 I could stage on the trireme tile 82, move 2NW on 83, then 1NW 1N on 84, with the cats being selected on the galleys and moved 1N after the galleys move. Is this correct?

You are correct on all mechanics. He could see the trireme tile only if he had a sentry promotion on a unit in a galley... which seems unlikely.

[Ceiliazul]

Everything is ready. I think I'm maybe a leettle bit over-prepared. /famous last words.

Famous last words indeed. You're going to need more defense near Nemedia if MNG takes it personally.

a mean man punches out an unsuspecting neighbor while on the other side of the world the teams there run away with the game.

Or alternatively, a smooth talking car salesman tricks a bored housewife into thinking he's a spy... until her husband shows him how "real" spies do it.

Pic from this article with which I agree 110%

[Commodore]

*awesomeness*

Best. Ded-lurker. Ever.

Don't worry, my resolve is as stiff as ever, although I won't be accepting his chariot, there is exactly one square on the entire eastern continent that is uncultured, and I'll be DoW'ing, then killing it with my nearby spear. Ruthless enough?

Here's the thing (would illustrate, but turn didn't come in this morning); as of Turn 83, I have machinery and every barracks city is building a crossbow. Each city will finish a crossbow at the same time as Engineering finishes (might swap a few over to spears for the auto-upgrade). Landsknechts will actually be worthwhile coming as early as this is, and should be able to an axe/chariot army (like MNG's) butt cold. You are right about the galley threat, which is why I'll be buying extra triremes from Yuri/Maestro, again at a 1h/1g price. Not saying nothing could go wrong, but I do actually have a plan. Meanwhile, until I get enough navy there to cover Nemedia I'll keep the stack in-city to defend against both land and sea invasions.

[Commodore]

Okay, so running by a first-draft of the note to MNG. Nothing is solid here, naturally, and I'm feeling iffy offering peace terms before any fighting has taken place, but here we go:

[COLOR="Yellow"]Hey MNG,

Sigh. Your offer for silver is more than fair, but unfortunately I'm going to have to turn it down. As of this turn, our empires are at war. I meant everything I said about how much I've been enjoying playing with you, I truly wasn't worried about the GLH, and so I feel like I owe you an explanation. I understand if you're still mad, but here's how things have been from Hyboria's perspective.

I wish that it had been anyone else but you, but I was right in my spoiler thread when I nicknamed the hub "casus belli land". Avignon is simply too close to my empire to be allowed to remain in French colors. If you had been willing to work out some sort of settling deal back when it was settled, when I was lowest in soldier points by a lot and you had a million trade contacts...I'd have probably been willing to let you keep the area. Still would have been bummed about it, but I would have slated it as the cost of running a farmer's gambit and probably geared up for fighting GES. As it was, coming as a hammer blow right after GES settled aggressively towards my land, I realized I was waaaaay too weak, and I needed to expand somewhere or my cruddy play was going to be the end of me as a competitive force in this game. Of the two settles, Avignon is far more aggressive and makes the most sense to try and take.

Having said all this, there are now two ways we can play this. Unless you've massively reinforced Avignon in the last two turns I will capture it and will follow up with a bomb that should secure my hub. Yuri and Maestro have been building up navy and enough forces to contribute to a full-scale invasion, although I am not so prideful as to assume that such an invasion would go off perfectly against a proven competent player like yourself. I'd prefer to not leave you feeling like you have nothing to lose, and so I have an offer:

I take Avignon and the hub area in between us. This is non-negotiable, but if you want to battle it out before conceding it by all means.

On the other hand, I know how valuable IC Trade Routes are to your empire. In return for not fighting my control of the hub, I will reopen borders (to heck with the others' complaints, let 'em whine) and allow non-military transit to the islands for TR fishing villages. Warriors can be used as MPs, and if you don't have any more warriors I'll actually give you one per island city.

NAPs: I dislike NAPs as much as you do, but we'd both need some sort of assurance that the other wasn't planning some sort of blitzkrieg against the other. How about a five-turn minimum war warning time for the next, say, sixty turns?[/COLOR]

I think these terms might actually be acceptable if he thinks with his head and not with his gut, but we'll have to see.

Also, in what is becoming a Commodore of HRE tradition, let's go for:


[SIZE="5"]Counting Cities Before They Have Hatched[/SIZE]

Right so, first of all, my own back-filling has been slowed (an unkind wag might term it "retarded") by the empire-wide military push. Well, I finally am in position to settle the more fertile of the two remaining sites next turn. I'm thinking of pushing the site 1N from the original plan, which will in turn push the Moai location north.



Blue is obviously weaker with this, although still a decent enough Moai location. Double sugar+clams will get it up speed fast enough, and the clams are now first-ring, which is a plus. The plains hill would get mined so the net hammers are still the same, and a nice cottage gets shared, which is the reason I'm still even vaguely competitive in GNP, those religiously grown cottages.

Red, however, is much better, trading an easily boatable exposed position for a sheltered bay. A sugar and trading a plains for a grassland should make the food surplus even more better and the second grassland hill is another 1/3/1 mine or 2/1/3 windmill spot, quite nice. 1E of red is a way to regain the clams and use the plains hill mine, but not worth two grassland cottages, a riverside grass hill, and the shared copper mine. Red's more safe location gives me the chance to make Red/Aquilonia/Ophir reasonable cultural victory bets if I snag the Sistine (now being slow-built in Aquilonia).

The real premature speculation comes with the hub planning:



Ignore Mr. Too Far East Dot, he's just my latent aggression coming out.

The artist bomb will give me borders shown by the thin dotted line, and a fort ASAP will give me both a canal to my war allies and a secure(ish) chokepoint to station defenders in. The next settlement should come quickly and will allow both silvers to not only be claimed but worked, as well as having enough food to grow at a decent clip. It's also pretty much the least offensive way to claim a third set of furs. Further eastward expansion would only happen with extensive negotiation with Yuri, as I'd hardly like to start a war with my friends over basically a miniature version of the current war's cause.

Feedback on all of this would be swell. Current expansion plan is Red, then Yellow then Blue...all within the next fifteen turns unless the war gets really hot.

[pindicator]

That really sucks about MNG's timing on the letter-- he does not know what's coming, does he? Either that or he is really good at playing the pity-me ploy.

It will be you who in fact aggressively roads into Avignon.

Oh good! This way you can blame the war on me if it feels like too mean of a gesture since it's my worker which is enabling your troop movement.

And props for the OOTS reference!

[Ceiliazul]

I can't take much time here, but DO NOT settle blue dot during war. You cannot possibly defend it, and a fork would be tough to fight.

Edit: I see you were planning to settle Blue last of the three, so nevermind my blathering.

I still think a 4th western city, 1SE from the bronze, would be optimal. It would allow you to spread the coastal cities more, and claim your fish resources. Red could go 1SW to become the three-food GP pump you discussed before.

[Commodore]

Welp, it's done.



Fortunately, also done:



Okay, so, objectives are to push into Avignon, hold Nemedia/the south coasts, and get a reasonable settlement. I may have to raze a bit more than that though:

Hatshepsut: well played
10 minutes
11:10 PM Hatshepsut: if you're in, i'd like to take a couple minutes to chat game
10 minutes
11:20 PM me: Sorry, back now.
11:21 PM Hatshepsut: no problem, i've spent the time working on combat simulators, and having DQ with the wife
me: Awesome, we were actually finishing up Sonic ice cream.
Hatshepsut: hmm. never had that, but it's definitely an ice cream kind of night
11:22 PM me: Ugh, Down here in the south, humidity at ~90%, over 90F
Hatshepsut: oh, no thank you. not even a little bit
11:23 PM me: Heh, yeah, it's like walking into a sauna.
Hatshepsut: thank goodness for the pacific nw.
me: So no hard (out-of-game) feelings I take it?
Hatshepsut: none at all
me: Yeah, it's nice in the summer.
11:24 PM Hatshepsut: nah, i'm not really surprised
me: I noticed Thing 1 roading towards me, was that heading for an invasion?
11:25 PM Hatshepsut: no. not yet anyway. i was probably 20 turns from any aggression toward another team
but at that point it would have been gunpowder invasion
me: I figured pre-Musketeers was prudent.
11:26 PM Hatshepsut: yeah, the timing was just about right
5 turns earlier would have been a critical blow
or declaring war one turn later would have probably been optimal
with avignon at 40% culture now you have to slog through a turn of blue borders to strike
11:27 PM me: Yeah, I noticed that.
Stupid cultural.
Hatshepsut: yeah, three big reasons i picked it, and that's one of them
me: Libraries are nice, and monuments aren't being the other two?
11:28 PM Hatshepsut: that combo is one of them. the third reason is flexibility to settle - it forgives errors i may make in settling/dotmapping
11:29 PM me: Right. Building culture is only now giving me a way to ape that.
Hatshepsut: and i'm average at best at dotmapping, so i expected cultural to help make me look better than i am. same thing with spiritual in a mid-late game aspect
11:30 PM so thanks to cultural, and stone, i should be able to hold avignon for two-three waves
unless you have considerably more force that i can't see
11:31 PM me: Aha! Bravo, the games then begin
Hatshepsut: yep
me: First time trying this against a human, ought to be fun
Hatshepsut: i guarantee it will be more fun than my first time against a human
11:32 PM me: Ugh, Krill's shenanigans and that map
shudder
11:33 PM Hatshepsut: yeah
even if it would have been fun, that was a much more complex situation than a rookie newbie should be trying out
this is a bit easier
me: Pitboss just seems to be asking for it.
11:34 PM Hatshepsut: yeah, i won't be trying that again, especially now that i know how fast pbem can go
me: And hey, we've proved, PBEM is faster.
Hatshepsut: exactly
brb, putting the baby down
me: np
11:36 PM Hatshepsut: fingers crossed and hoping that works
me: Heh, know the feeling, actually.
Hatshepsut: so... do i understand correctly that the main objective of your war is to get avignon?
11:37 PM me: My youngest brother is sixteen years younger than me.
Hatshepsut: oh wow, you would know about that from him then
me: Avignon and the hub area in general, actually.
I figure Rathauses actually give me a chance to make it more profitable than most.
11:38 PM Hatshepsut: that's probably right, actually
you know i have a city behind avignon, right?
11:39 PM me: I figured from the info.
I wasn't sure where exactly though.
11:40 PM Hatshepsut: well, even if i cede avignon, that city should not interfere with your access to the hub area
remember, i can hold it through 2-3 waves easily
11:41 PM but i would rather not, as i learned in pb3 that kind of warfare doesn't help the defender any more than the attacker
me: Right
And I'm not totally convinced it can hold that many waves.
Remains to be seen, naturally.
11:43 PM Hatshepsut: of course. unless wave 3 is significantly stronger than 1 or 2, the rest will be irrelevant, by that point i'll be fielding longbows
me: Exactly, that's the window.
11:44 PM My crossbows will eat the older stuff, but the longbows are just unpleasant units.
Honestly, we've banned their natural era-appropriate counter.
Hatshepsut: yep
11:45 PM me: Even though it makes sense. I wish we could cherry-pick RB mod features.
WE as Strength 7 actually makes sense.
11:46 PM Hatshepsut: well by the time we got that far we'd both be irrelevant against ges and rl7
so, peace terms
11:47 PM i give you avignon
me: Ah, good start. Is that all the terms?
Hatshepsut: lol
11:48 PM
me: Where is the other city? I assume it works the second silver mine.
11:50 PM If that's tactical data you want to avoid sharing, question redacted, but I need to know how much pressure Avignon is under.
Hatshepsut: 4n, 1 west of avignon
avignon is not under pressure
it wouldn't be easy to keep the silvers, but i am happy to work out terms for them
11:51 PM me: Ah, I wondered if it was that hill.
Hatshepsut: kind of a bummer of an area
me: Silver #2 and crap deer both second ring there.
11:52 PM Hatshepsut: yep
11:53 PM for obvious reasons, next term is great artist is used in your mainland. i cannot allow aggressive bombing or settling of the artist
me: How much culture is the settled artist?
11:54 PM Hrm. Wish I could be sure to land Sistine, that would make the calculation simple.
Hatshepsut: 12 culture
11:55 PM me: A permanent scientist is two with Sistine, which = Creative.
It's an ugly area.
11:56 PM Meanwhile, every other team watches with great interest as these are the only two silver on the map.
Hatshepsut: lol yep

Ugh. I hope that's bluster. My sims have me taking the place unless he's got more than two spears or 2+ cats though. My first impulse is to take the deal, but that leaves me in a hard place culturally and MNG can still take both silvers unless I bomb...which would put me right back into war. Sigh. Nothing will be decided until I see Avignon's burly defenses.