[SPOILERS] scooter - Zara Yakob

[scooter]

*yawn*

Yes there's been that much action going on here. Amelia has been totally silent so far, and then apparently he (she?) spied a stack of 45 Egyptian Knights with a Sentry Chariot and suddenly Amelia decides "hey it might be a good idea to talk to everyone"... Except all he sent was a picture and a message that said:

Yeah, that's about 45 knights and 25 catapaults, along with a GG medic.

I don't know if I can handle that many words in one message! I think I'm going to read the first half now, take a nap, then read the rest later. Or maybe tomorrow. Sorry for posting such a huge wall of text.

Memo to Amelia: maybe you should like, I don't know, let us know where you want our troops to be stationed to defend you? I mean if you want our help.

Meanwhile, I'm just teching along, I founded my 17th city in a nice filler spot in the middle of my land (by nice I mean there's some grass there), and other than that I'm just teching along. I've got all of Liberalism except for about 10 beakers researched, and I'm working on Replacable Parts now... I think I may go Chemistry next and slingshot the tech that unlocks Levees (I can't remember the name off-hand for some reason, but it's more expensive than Rifling).

[scooter]

Figured I'd go ahead and respond to Amelia, since my only chance of winning does rest on her (that's my guess based on the email address) survival, or at least her ability to cause Sandover grief while she dies. I'm just afraid she might just capitulate like Twinkletoes did, at which point it's conceding time.

As long as she survives though, I've got a shot. My GNP is really out-pacing Sandover's, so that's my one hope as the game winds down. It's a slim hope, but it's a hope. It's difficult to balance knowing how much to help Amelia and how much to just help myself, since the options aren't really mutually exclusive.

Anyways, I will be finishing up University of Sankore in my capital in a couple turns (really just build it since I had the modifier for it and a pretty good amount of Confucian buildings), and after that I should have my final University complete so I can start Oxford in my capital.

[scooter]

Got a really odd message from Sandover... I guess that's sorta like saying I got a headache after slamming my head into the wall 10 times, because it's just not very surprising.

Dear Scooter,

Will you try to interfere if I invade Moogle?

Regards,

Pharaoh Sandover of Egypt

Um, duh? I wrote back to him and basically said "yeah probably" only in a few more words. Is he screwing with me? I mean I just saw a screenshot yesterday of his 45 Knights + 25 cats on the Roman border, so it's not like he's got two stacks that size... I hope. Just another episode in the Sandover diplo show...

Few messages back and forth between everyone:

Well, the tech page doesn't show any updated emails lol, I would need to look at the save once i reach home which will take some time. But i think putting it where my stack is would work. My workers are going to road to that tile soon (And only knights can reach it, which will mean no defensive bonuses).

Would have really liked more detail than "just put your guys where my stack is"... What does that even mean? I see lots of stacks...

Can my forces + Rome's defend against 45 knights and 25 cats? Absolutely, I have something like 35 knights and 20 cats there now; that plus Rome's forces is a match for his stack if we get to hit first.

But as Moogle implies, we pretty much have to attack; if we sit back and let him take out the Celts then its game over. The catch of course is that Sandover's stack is also large enough to shred our combined forces, it really is a standoff situation in the west. Ideas?

Moogle - my real life has not gotten any better so that's part of the lack of communication.

I guess the question is, if he has 45 Knights + 25 cats right on the Rome front, does he really have enough other stuff on the other front to take out SleepingMoogle?

Just a note, Sandover has Military Tradition, so we could see Cuirassers at some point too.

[scooter]

So Sandover sent me a taunting message, which apparently he's been doing a lot of lately. Well this game has been boring-ish lately, so I decided to fire back at him. First, his message:

Scooter,

Welcome to the party. I was wondering when those units would finally get here - I've been tracking them for ages!

I trust you're going to take charge of things on the other side of the fence now, aye? The incompetence of your friends is starting to bore me so it would surely make for a nice change of pace.

Pharaoh Sandover of Egypt

Kind of an odd message since I've had troops in Rome for quite some time now, but hey, I guess he's bored. Here's my message back:

Sandover,

It's amusing to see you taunting, since I'm not the one who has managed to get almost the entire world in a war against him . You'd have the game locked up by now it wasn't for that!

I guess it's not too surprising that I'd try to prop up one of the many civs you are at war with, right? I think you are the one in a tight position, you've got a huge military costing huge maintenance and you don't know what to do with it, since there are no easy targets left. You also know full well you apparently don't have near the research capacity of your biggest rival... You're in a bit of trouble, right?

I'm not sweating... but I think you are

scooter

Okay I admit it, I had fun writing that. I think Sandover is trying to goad everyone into attacking him, then he can slaughter the troops inside his borders and counter-attack. Sadly, Amelia has concocted a few bizarre attacks plans (which we've quickly shot down), so it might just be working. As long as we can keep Amelia from doing something stupid, I'm happy. I'm perfectly content to let this war just sit and fester (it's working out great for me, starting to pull away in tech and I'm still sandbagging Liberalism), but Amelia is getting restless.

[Square Leg]

Hey Scooter,

What are you hoping to grab from Liberalism? I haven't seen any shots of your lands lately but i pressume you are cottage heavy so Democracy would be nice?

Or are you considering a military tech such as Rifles or Steel?

[scooter]

Hey Scooter,

What are you hoping to grab from Liberalism? I haven't seen any shots of your lands lately but i pressume you are cottage heavy so Democracy would be nice?

Or are you considering a military tech such as Rifles or Steel?

Probably rifles but I was basically just saving til sandover finished education which he's about to do.

So Amelia made peace with sandover without telling us what was going on. Yay, someone else selling out. My first reaction was pretty unhappy but she didn't tell us the terms so I asked what they were and I'll reserve judgment until then. If she's vassalizing too though I'll be pretty unhappy. Also this means the war is likely headed for SleepingMoogle next, which is bad. If he falls then my chances at a space win are likely done...

[scooter]

Well Sandover is about to declare on SleepingMoogle, and I'm not sure how well he can hold. I'm just not sure what Sandover's goal is though... Is gonna just take a few cities so he can get a front with me? I'm thinking so. I just teched Rifles a few turns ago, so I started building them... I don't think we have enough to save SleepingMoogle, but I actually feel like I'll have enough Rifles to defend myself. Should be interesting for sure.

[scooter]

Well Sandover is about to declare on SleepingMoogle, and I'm not sure how well he can hold. I'm just not sure what Sandover's goal is though... Is gonna just take a few cities so he can get a front with me? I'm thinking so. I just teched Rifles a few turns ago, so I started building them... I don't think we have enough to save SleepingMoogle, but I actually feel like I'll have enough Rifles to defend myself. Should be interesting for sure.

Surprisingly he still hasn't declared yet, though he founded a border city and culture bombed it to give himself a better buffer. Attack should be coming any turn now I'm thinking, unless he gets cold feet on the attack. I'm thinking Sandover won't be able to break through though... Timmy is going to be able to make it after all (50 knights), so we probably have around 80 knights and 25 cats to defend against Sandover... I'm trickling in a few Rifles now, and Timmy is about two turns from Rifles himself. I'm starting to feel pretty good about the state of things...

[scooter]

When Amelia took over for Bobchillingworth, she kinda scrapped all his previous relations and diplomacy, and as a result sold us all out. We still don't really know how close she is to Sandover, and I don't trust her one bit. I know Bobchillingworth wouldn't have done some of the things she did diplomatically, so it was frustrating to essentially lose an ally because the new player didn't stick to the original players' plans. My biggest regret was that I didn't make a bigger push early on to fill her in on what's happened thus far and try to sway her over to "my side" of things.

Fast foward to today, where Gold Ergo Sum is taking over for Timmy. My first thought was "oh no, this game is over. He'll never let me tech away in peace like I've been doing."

Then I realized that if I still wanted to win this game, I needed to learn from my previous mistake and make Gold like me, giving me a chance to not only retain status quo, but possibly make things even better. So here's what I sent him.... Warning, this is a very long message, but if you've got a couple minutes, I think it'd be worth reading. If you're strapped for time, at least read the last few paragraphs. Here ya go:

Gold,

Thanks for filling in for Timmy for the rest of the game! I'm sure you're hard at work getting up to date on the state of your nation, so I'd like to help you get acquainted to what's going on in this game, as well as give some of my perspective. This will be shorter than I'd like because I have a busy night ahead, but I will do my best, and I will be more than willing to answer any questions.

(Added Later: Y'okay, this got longer than I planned! This email will come across as somewhat bold towards the end, but I'm only doing this as I'd rather lay my cards down now than leave you guessing as to what I'm thinking)

Civ history:

Sandover - he has been the dominant force in this game from the start. He's had a very abrasive style of diplomacy, and he's managed to irritate every single civ in this game at this point. Timmy was the only exception, although that had more to do with the fact that he never talked to anyone, so it was nearly impossible to annoy him . If you'd like, I can detail all the things he's done this game, but suffice it to say that he's annoyed enough people that a huge coalition formed against him with the sole purpose of preventing him from winning the game. He was running away with the game as-is, to the point where I had to talk everyone out of conceding just a month ago! You'll see he still dominates the demographics, so he probably still is the favorite to win. If any wars break out between myself, you, and SleepingMoogle, Sandover will win. More on this in a minute.

Timmy - Timmy played a typical Khmer start - he blew everyone away with expansion that dwarfed all but Sandover, but in the process he annoyed everyone who shared a border with him. He never consulted neighbors about cities, and rarely communicated by email and never by chat. This resulted in a 2v1, where myself and Bobchillingworth had a minor war with him in order to gain land that we felt was rightfully ours. SleepingMoogle kind of joined with a weak force to pick off the northeastern city, but Timmy took it back later on (you have it now). Timmy made peace with us, and united with us to prevent Sandover from running away - as Sandover had a truly scary lead by this point. Bobchillingworth of Rome was about to come under attack, so we assembled all we could in his land, lasting in a long standoff. After that war ended (I'll get to that in the Rome section), Timmy has aided in defending SleepingMoogle from Sandover's possible aggression. He hasn't declared war, but we believe he was about to do so given his buildup of troops in that region. We believe that if Sandover takes Moogle's land, thus gaining control of the Apostolic Palace and many shrines, it could end the game.

SleepingMoogle - started with a very heavy religious start, and got pretty far behind as a result (he also has pretty weak land, so that's hurt him too). His only chance of winning the game is via culture.

Bobchillingworth/Amelia - Had a long stalemate war with Sandover under Bobchillingworth's control, as Timmy and I defended Rome from Sandover. Neither side launched any real attacks, as both sides had enough defenses to slaughter anything the other sent. Amelia took over, and sold everyone out by cutting a deal with Sandover without telling anyone. As a result, I no longer trust her, which is disappointing because I was extremely close to Bob when he was running the show. Amelia more or less scrapped all the previous relations for her civ, which was disappointing since it hurt everyone else.

Twinkletoes - his lands have been absorbed by Sandover - he started in the central north of the map.


I know this all probably comes across as slightly disconnected, but I'm going to try to sum it all up as to where we are now. I'll be completely honest with you and give you what I think are the odds of winning for each player:

Sandover - 50%: The definite favorite. He'd been previously struggling to keep up with me in tech, but he seems to have had quite the GNP boost lately, and I have no doubt he'll be able to leverage his land into making him the slim favorite to win by space. His land is inferior to both yours and mine, but he has more of it.

scooter - 29.9%: I'll be blunt and honest, as that's my preferred way of dealing with people. I'm in a better position than you are for a direct run for space. I have more cities and equally good land, as well as a slight tech advantage. My chances are slightly better.

Gold - 20%: You still have fantastic land and a weak neighbor next to you who nobody cares about anymore.

SleepingMoogle - 0.1%: I'm sure he's got tons of culture cranking, but he's a whole era behind, so I can't see him getting there on time.

Amelia - 0%: No possible way.

So where does that leave us? You could very well try to take me out, as my land is better than Amelia's. Your power ranking is also quite a bit higher than mine, but this is deceiving for a couple of reasons:

1. SleepingMoogle has a large chunk of my Knights, which I would get back from him if you declared on me. I would then shut off science and upgrade them all to Cavalry.
2. I'm just about at Assembly Line, so I'd be able to draft out a large amount of infantry, which would mean we'd hit stalemate awfully quickly.

In the end, if you decide you want to declare on me, Sandover wins and that's that. So I'm going to propose that we avoid that route at all costs. I would like to propose a game-long NAP to commit to us racing to a peaceful finish. I'm trying to be as transparent as possible in acknowledging that I have a better shot at winning (though yours is still very real), but if we don't do this, then odds are high that neither one of us will win, which isn't very ideal!

Sorry for the long length, and thanks for reading the whole thing if you made it this far! I'm not normally this long-winded, but given the point in the game that we're at and how high the stakes are, this seemed like something I needed to do. I'd be happy to catch you on chat sometime if you wanted to ask some questions, in fact I'll add you to my contact list as soon as I send this.

Thanks!
scooter

Fingers crossed. If he flip flops and declares war on me, we might as well concede to Sandover. The reason I'm so nervous about it, is if I took over in Timmy's position, the first thing I'd consider would be attacking the neighbor with fantastic land and a small army... So yeah, I'd like him to not think about that... And there really ARE legitimate reasons why he shouldn't do that, so it's a completely sincere message.

Something I didn't share on here, but just 3 weeks ago I had to talk everyone out of quitting again. Amelia, SleepingMoogle, AND Timmy all wanted to concede to Sandover, but I said no. I think they were all vastly overestimating Sandover's dominance right now, not realizing that I was 6 major techs up on Sandover. I fully expect him to start catching up since his GNP took a big spike recently (not sure how he did that, but I also took the lead in Production), and he'll get the discounts on techs. He's still the favorite, but I've got a pretty solid shot I think, provided I can continue to pull puppet strings as I've admittedly been doing.

[Gaspar]

Hey Scooter,

Can't say much, as I plowed through Sandover's thread first (I think everyone would admit he's played the most interesting to the neutral game of anyone,) but I did want to make two non-spoilerish comments:

1. You've also played an excellent game.

2. Have *you* given any thought to turning on your allies?

I won't make any other comment/question on #2, because anything else could be misconstrued as I'm reasonably spoiled, I ask this only as a request for information on your thoughts, which I believe these lurker threads are about.

Thanks in advance!