EitB v12 Wishlist/Progress

[Qgqqqqq]

What's the rationale behind switching the caste system bonus from from a beaker to a gold?

Bunch of things. Gold is generally more valuable, so slight buff, self synergy as Kragroth said, and lots of things give extra science anyway.

[Qgqqqqq]

Just a note I don't like 21. It makes us have even less of a reason to research Theology and further nerfs Good aligned Civs.

Well this is true. But considering it's a retraction of an earlier substantial buff too theocracy and massive nerf to Druids, I think it's warranted.

[Qgqqqqq]

They're a hybrid in purpose, Kragroth, and you know it. Merchants are the gold specialist. Engineers are the hammer specialist. What are priests, again?

[Kragroth]

Just a note I don't like 21. It makes us have even less of a reason to research Theology and further nerfs Good aligned Civs.

Well this is true. But considering it's a retraction of an earlier substantial buff too theocracy and massive nerf to Druids, I think it's warranted.

I don't understand why this is warranted. This takes away the purpose of building a specific religion priests and just gives me everything if I'm Druids and is a massive boost to Neutrals which feels unwarranted.

I don't know what you mean by retraction of a substantial buff and a nerf to druids.

They're a hybrid in purpose, Kragroth, and you know it. Merchants are the gold specialist. Engineers are the hammer specialist. What are priests, again?

We're talking about Great Units here, so let's make sure the reference is proper. Every Great Unit is a Hybrid (Except Great Commanders).

Great Merchants are a hybrid specialist that gives mostly gold and a little food. Great Engineers are a hybrid specialist that give equal numbers of hammers and beakers. Great Prophets are a hybrid specialist that gives mostly gold and a couple of hammers.

I much more legitimately prefer settled Great Prophets to Settled Great Merchants or Settled Great Engineers. I would gladly take 1 less gold and 1 less food to get 2 more hammers. I would gladly take 1 less hammer and 3 less beakers to get 5 gold.

[The Black Sword]

I don't like the Druid change either, I really liked the original change since it gave a use for High Priests.

Pacifism idea is too early IMO, maybe too powerful. Philosophy does seem like a good place to put something specialist related though.

[Qgqqqqq]

The initial Druid change was that in pre-v10 and base FFH, Druids which gained access to the Divine promotion, via being upgraded to from tier 2 disciple units (Cultists, Stonewardens and so on) would have access to the spells of High Priests. I changed it so that the spells were tied specifically to the High Priest units (which actually caused a temporary error with Sphener).

However, whilst 100% a good change to my mind, this was a pretty substantial nerf to CwN/Druids. I thought that this would serve as a minor buff to them, allowing them to get level 2 priest spells outside of the religion.

Does that clear things up? I'm not entirely sure that everyone knew what we were talking about, here.

@Kragroth, remember, this is 4 units, available at a very expensive and unneeded tech, and they're ones that you kinda want more for their own spell. If 4 ritualists will break the game for you, just revolt to AV! It's a lot cheaper than researching a 7000b tech. You still need the appropriate religion somewhere, anyway.

[Qgqqqqq]

To codify this a bit more:


Bold indicates that I'm currently implementing these (but, as always, discussion is still open), Stricken means they're not going to happen, and italicized means the verdict is still out.

Proposals:

1. Guild loses +1h to workshops. +1h added to workshops by default.

2. Guarded lairs take 3 turns just like regular ones.

3. Windmills buildable at Mathematics Construction (not engineering)

3.1 On that note, Forts available at Masonry.

4. Aristocracy moves from -40% maintenance to -10%

5. Galleys lose 1 move (to 2 moves base, 3 with longshoreman)

6. Naval promotions are switched up. Longshoreman now loses 1 combat, Buccaneers now loses 1 cargo, and Skeleton Crew loses 1 combat, gains two cargo.

7. Eurabates, Drifa, and Abashi gain the Hero promotion.

8. Foreign Trade loses +1 trade route everywhere; gains +50% trade-route yield.
- Should this be +25%?

9. The Great Library gives +2b per specialist (from +1b)

10. The Dragon's Hoard gives +2 cpt, +100% cpt, +10gpt, Gems, Enchantment Mana, Mithril and Gold. (Instead of all other affects)

11. Pacifism gains infinite sage, infinite merchant slots.

11. Pacifism available at Philosophy, infinite sage/merchant slots.

12. Caste System gains low upkeep, +1g per specialist, loses +1b per specialist.

13. Wane requires level 5.

14. Pact of Nilhorn price reduced to 200h base (133h quick) 250h base (167h quick)

15. CRE recieves +100% Public Baths speed. Anti synergetic with Drama push, but eh well.

16. Sidar Palace gives +1g for priest specialists.

17. Warrens give +10% maintenance.

18. Barbarian Peace triggers on 125% of rivals score. Delayed for first 5 turns (so you don't lose it when you settle.

19. Bannor get +1h per cottage, (hamlet, village, town)???
- Too much? 1c instead? Or nothing?
- (How can this be implemented? Palace?)

19. New Improvement: Bannor Towns. Towns in Crusade upgrade to Bannor Towns after 15(?)t of being worked. Upgrading to Bannor Towns grants a Demagogue, and turns the Bannor Town into a Town.

20. Can switch religions/civics every 8t, not 10t

21. Druids gain Divine. Acolytes, Disciples Ecclesiastics, Savants, Thanes and Zealots can upgrade to Druids.
- Druids can be used to cast tier 2 spells you aren't in the right religion for.

[Bobchillingworth]

Please just leave barbarian peace alone. Nobody has asked for a change, and consensus seems overwhelmingly against one.

[Qgqqqqq]

I posted this ages ago, and there wasn't any discussion on it. I'm reposting now (having just finished implementing it) to make sure people have a chance to weigh in.

Lairs are probably the most contentious issue in the mod. But we've gotta do SOMETHING about them, right?

Some people like the chaotic results, some do not. Perhaps most importantly, however, lairs are in fact an intrinsic part of the game, and not meant to be something you leave on and off from game to game. They add flavor and quantity to the barb mixes faced, helping some civs and hurting others and just generally extending the period influence of barb influence in the game-play, and change the way xp is available in the game.

Therefore the results or the period in which they can be accessed need to be changed to sufficient degree to appease those who don't like them at all, whilst not pissing off those who enjoy the current implementation.

There're a couple of ways to do this.

Firstly, we can change the way/amount that they are accessed, particularly in the early game. EitB has already semi-done this with the three turns aspects, but it doesn't really change much.
Azoth proposed this upheaval as a solution:

LAIRS: A while back, I proposed that lair popping have a level requirement, possibly using the existing code for Brigit. It would look something like this:
* Any military unit can explore Graveyards and Shipwrecks. (No Workboats!)
* Only Level 2+ units can explore Barrows and Ruins. (2XP minimum)
* Only Level 3+ units can explore Goblin Forts and Dungeons. (4/5XP minimum)
* Only Level 4+ units can explore Unique Features. (8/10XP minimum)

Whilst the exact setups could be changed, I feel this is a very viable solution, and would satisfy most players.

Alternatively, or even alongside, I could look at altering the way the results are handled in some way to make them less gamebreaking. Whilst on the face of it, this seems very unappetizing (as it requires a lot of work, and some arbitrary decisions on my part) there are some possibilities that I'd consider - for example, in Magistermodmod a promotion "Lair Guardian" is introduced, and holds the chief BigBad's in place, effectively serving to protect the lair from future exploration for a spell, but reducing the possibility of a game-destroying spawn (the assistants can still attack).
On the negative side, that change makes lair-exploration much more of a one-right-choice, as the companions pose little existential threat.

Progress Report:

Key:
Done and untested: Blue
Done and Tested: Green

Implemented:
Naval units gain +50% vs. Disciple units (Mod Notes: hard-coded in.)
Conquest Civic: Moves back to Warfare (from Education).
Military State: Moves back to Military Strategy (from Warfare).
Decius: Decius gains the Tolerant trait.
Summer Palace: Pedia Background and Strategy Entries updated/filled in.
Winter Palace: Pedia Background and Strategy Entries updated/filled in.
Form of the Titan: Pedia Background and Strategy Entries updated/filled in.
Boar Rider: Pedia Background and Strategy Entries updated/filled in.
Ljosalfar Palace: Pedia Background Entry updated/filled in.
General Palace: Strategy entry created/filled.
Tax Office: Pedia Background and Strategy Entries updated/filled in.
Rivanna The Wraith Lord: Pedia Background Entry updated/filled in.
Dwarven Slinger: Pedia Background Entry updated/filled in.
Stonewarden: Pedia Background Entry updated/filled in.
Planar Gate: Cost reduced from 200->100h
Pallens Engine: Cost reduced from 180->120h
Alduria Chambers: Cost reduced from 180->120h
- Reliquary gains a priest slot.
Wane requires level 5 (not 6)
Queen of the Line 9->16str
Abashi gains the hero promotion
Drifa gains the hero promotion
Eurabatres gains the hero promotion
- Reliquary cost changed from 60h->45h
Lairs:
* Any military unit can explore Graveyards and Shipwrecks. (No Workboats!)
* Only Level 2+ units can explore Barrows and Ruins. (2XP minimum)
* Only Level 3+ units can explore Goblin Forts and Dungeons. (4/5XP minimum)
* Only Level 4+ units can explore Unique Features. (8/10XP minimum)
* Epic Lairs take 3 turns to explore, all other lairs take 1 turn to explore (exploration triggers at start of next turn

[Qgqqqqq]

Please just leave barbarian peace alone. Nobody has asked for a change, and consensus seems overwhelmingly against one.

Sure.