American Politics Discussion Thread

[ipecac]

Because nationalism is surging in this crisis. People are finally seeing the downside of offshoring production of masks, medicine and other essentials, everyone closing their borders is a big blow against globalism, and Trump is the only nationalist candidate in the US. Meanwhile they can blame China in the true nationalistic spirit.

Brussels on the other hand completely bungled it, insisting that EU members keep their borders open even as they ignored it and locked down.

[ipecac]

Trump is also being the big Daddy. '$2000 a month? Hell yeah.'

[T-hawk]

Can someone explain to me how in the world Trump's approval numbers are actually going up right now?

In a time of crisis, people look for strength and relief. Any incumbent holding power is much more able to display strength and promise relief than any outsider. No incumbent president has ever failed to be re-elected in time of war.

I often side with Trump in general, but yeah you can't believe anything he says about this, he is only babbling for the cameras what his base wants to hear. I have some cautious optimism that some of the right things besides Trump himself are happening off-stage. That's the sort of thing this administration does have a reputation for doing, Trump's dealmaker history is about putting the right people in the right places to get the right results -- like get bureaucratic roadblocks out of the way for domestic production of tests and masks and ventilators, and fast-track therapy and vaccine studies. I have no idea if the trillion dollar giveaway is a good thing or not, or what the whole economic picture looks like for that. I hope the president does have solid advisors there.

[MJW (ya that one)]

Another factor was the coronavirus was not stoppable because China gave it a 3 week headstart. So all Trump can do is damage control, trillion dollar bailouts, looking tough, dealing with supply shortages and social distancing to slow the spread so the medical system doesn't get swamped. Yes, him stalling action will cause a few extra deaths but that isn't noticeable compared with the total deaths and the stuff he's doing now.

[Gustaran]

Because a lot of people watch Fox News, which relentlessly pushes the message that Trump is doing a great job.

But isn't that crazy? These people have watched Trump on Fox ridiculing the pandemic for two months and suddenly he does a 180 and explains he was always on top of things. I mean they are being lied to their faces, why ignore it?
The equivalent would be me telling everybody here Civ 4 is a terrible game and people who play it are silly, but claim two months later Civ 4 is the greatest game ever and I supported it from the very beginning.

People are finally seeing the downside of offshoring production of masks, medicine and other essentials

That seems a widely accepted fact by now? Even the EU has said they are going to make changes to return production of essential goods to the EU.

In a time of crisis, people look for strength and relief. Any incumbent holding power is much more able to display strength and promise relief than any outsider.

In general, I would agree with that sentiment, a prime example probably being Andrew Cuomo, who seems to rise to the challenge if I can believe international press coverage (and the majority of Reddit comments ). But are you not worried that the President is basically contradicted by his own advisors on the matter? Why rally behind a leader who does not seem to have a clue?
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/14/polit...index.html

As for picking the right people for the right place: I just remember Secretary of Education, Betsy de Vos: Her biggest qualification was probably her donation to Trump. Or the Chief of the EPA, Scott Pruitt, who did his best to dismantle it and had to resign due to ethics violations? 
Also great appointment: The current ambassador to Germany, Richard Grenell and big time donor to Trump. (though admittatly giving ambassador jobs to financial supporters seems common in both partys: https://www.fastcompany.com/90436584/tru...est-secret)

In any case, Grenell behaves like an elephant in a china shop, I don't think I've seen somebody act like this in a diplomatic role. I would rate him as completely incompetent as an ambassador, but Trump probably send him over to irritate German politicians, in which case Grenell can be considered a big success.  

Another factor was the coronavirus was not stoppable because China gave it a 3 week headstart. So all Trump can do is damage control, trillion dollar bailouts, looking tough, dealing with supply shortages and social distancing to slow the spread so the medical system doesn't get swamped.

But Trump basically had a two months headstart which he wasted actively downplaying the issue, didn't he?

[MJW (ya that one)]

He did waste 2 months but no-one cares because it didn't matter. Like a lazy uncle who allows a child to ride without a seatbelt but doesn't crash the car.

Edit: It's also obvious that he allowed people to plan what to do in case he had to declare an emergency during those two months.

[Commodore]

Can someone explain to me how in the world Trump's approval numbers are actually going up right now?

A lot of outside observers (and, hilariously, Trump himself), don't typically see it, but "Trump approval" usually is more "his enemies disapproval". As a handy middle finger signal he's hard to beat. People are annoyed, so I'd expect to see more poking of the Trump button.

[The Black Sword]

I don't think that analogy holds up, it seems quite likely to me that there were consequences to Trump's actions (as opposed to none for the uncle). Growth in the early stages seems just as important as growth in the later stages of the virus to me, even though the numbers seem small in absolute terms at the time. But if you mean his base won't recognise/agree with this, then sure I'd accept that.

[Bobchillingworth]

But isn't that crazy?

Yes.


The current occupant lied about the virus and preparedness of the U.S. for months while deliberately undermining the response from a federal government he had spent the last three years hollowing out, all for what he thought to be his own political advantage. A dozen weeks of advance warning were squandered, and now Americans are dying while the economy regresses at an unprecedented rate. About a week and a half ago, a switch flipped within the conservative propaganda apparatus, and now the narrative has switched from "Coronavirus is a democrat hoax" to "The president should declare martial law and perhaps suspend elections".


You should be deeply concerned about this.

[Mardoc]

It's value over replacement.  Trump has certainly made mistakes, but it looks like the whole world has made mistakes.  About the only places that seem to be doing better than the US are South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan.  Maybe that perception will change as the data catches up.

Haven't seen any other US national politicians calling for measures earlier than he did, and in fact there was a bit of push-back on, for example, the Chinese travel ban.

Also, keep in mind the context when discussing change in approval rating - two years ago the argument was that he isn't really the president, last year the argument was corruption, this year it's incompetence.  Incompetence really is better than traitor...even if you completely believe the Democrat narrative, there's improvement going on.