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That for posting that chat log. Very interesting stuff developing.
The diplomacy looks to be breaking pretty well in your favor. ZPV and shadyforce will possibly get tangled in early warfare, sunrise and the League of Lin want a piece of Krill, and meanwhile you can expand in relative peace. Either you've been lucky, or all that Diplo experience and chatting to other teams frequently is paying off. I think it's mostly the latter!
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Well aw shucks Sullla  .
I do think it is important to keep lines of communication open with everyone and chat people up frequently. And I do think that doing those kinds of things can increase your odds of doign well. But obviously there is still a whole lot of luck involved.
But I do feel that things are going well for me at this stage.
I feel that the slowness of the game is helping me compensate for my #1 civ weakness, which is playing too quickly and failing to orchestrate any kind of strategy. So domestically I think things are going well (as evidenced by my higher score and demo rankings). And as you point out, diplomtically things are leaning in my favor.
And I am going to have a MASSIVE empire, if things continue on this course. I figured about 250 tiles for each player, which means maybe 12-15 cities.
With ZPV hopefully eliminating shadyforce, and sunrise more focused on krill (he told me in chat yesterday that he thinks that worker steal really hurt his chances to win and now he just wants to have fun and make krill pay), I should have room for at least 20?, relatively peacefully)
In the back of my mind is trying to make sure to avoid ELS (early leader syndrome), but it's a better option than the alternative (early death syndrome)
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Chaseup email to Imhotep
Quote:Hey Imhotep,
Just thought I'd check in with you. Still haven't seen an impi army marching by my borders, so that's always a good sign!
Thought I would mention that I did meet ruff last turn (T56 I think). He has a warrior over to the south of my lands. He mentioned that he was SE of you, which I assume that you already knew. He also as a nice gesture pointed out to me where an iron source is near my lands. So he has IW (or is a skillful liar or both :-) ). So be careful for praets!
Anything else happening up in your neck of the woods? I have my first encounter with a barb warrior this turn (should have happened when the turn rolled over here - but haven't logged on to check). Over to the east of the lake east of my capital. It's right near the T30 Imhotep scout sign that I have :-P Guess I can delete that one since it's not very useful anymore.
I only have m_h and dsplaisted to meet - how about you?
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About my previous post, expansion was meant to = be a happy hippy builder
Happy with how things are looking diplomatically, I'll have to refresh my memory of how GLighthouse works, I figure we have a decent shot at it with quite a few others getting red in the face.
"We are open to all opinions as long as they are the same as ours."
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Glightouse is basically 2 free trade routes in every coastal city. I WB'd a test - all those inland seas on this map count as coastal. So that means for most of the game (until Corporation), we have 4 trade routes in most of our cities, instead of 2. Since each trade route should be foreign (with 10 possible civs to get routes from), that's 4 commerce per turn for EVERY CITY. If we conservatively say I have 10 coastal cities, that's 40 cpt for most of the game.
Not bad for a 200 hammer investment. Really want to find m_h to see his demogs
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Has anyone given us directions to the last 2 'unknown' players? If yes are our warriors anywhere close by?
"We are open to all opinions as long as they are the same as ours."
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dsplaisted and m_h are in the southern part of the map. Broker says m_h is to the west of him, and dsp to the west of m_h. Or if you go east of ZPV, dsplaisted is east, followed by m_h, and then broker.
We have warriors in the area but not too close. Right now I'm really trying to get that circumnavigation bonus.
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regoarrarr Wrote:I have to say I'm nervous though about potential spoilers leaking out. I know that none of you lurkers would intentionally do or say anything to tip Krill off (and he's got to have an idea of it anwyays), but please be careful, even asking questions like "How would you respond to a big attack coming" or "what will you do about pillagers", etc. Good points, and I'm sure we're all keeping them in mind; it's probably a safe bet that nothing is leaking out via the "lurker channel" though:
regoarrarr Wrote:Email from Krill with his side of the timeline. I don't know if any of the lurkers have been asking him about that, or pointing out inconsistencies with what he has said vs. what others have said in their private threads. I imagine it has to be kind of a difficult thing for a lurker to try and get the full story without risking inadvertent (mini-) spoilers. Fortunately, between the time you posted the NAP/worker-steal timeline as you understood it and the time you posted the above quote, there were exactly two lurker comments in Krill's thread, and neither one mentioned anything about the worker, the NAP, timelines, confusion or disagreement on other players' parts about Krill's actions, or anything else that could remotely be associated with that situation. So we seem to be in the clear in that respect, but you're right that it's always wise to watch out for that sort of thing.
(Obviously, nobody's been asking Shadyforce what his anti-horse defenses are like either! I'm kind of glad the NAP looks like it isn't going through, even though I could kind of see your point - my way of thinking isn't the One Right Way, I realize - and I agree that keeping to oneself and rebuffing friendly overtures is not a good recipe for success in this type of game. I think you've played very well thus far, especially in that respect; good luck!)
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@Refsteel
Cool - I didn't mean to suggest that anyone had leaked anything - just posting that more as a watchout. I know from the email game that it can be difficult to get clarifications from one civ about things you're not sure of without risking leakings out of other knowledge you have that the player doesn't.
We from the Apolyton demogame call this "the Krill effect". For those that don't know, Krill was (is) the admin of that game and at one point asked us in our private forum something like "What turn will your settler get to that spot" when we were in a (unbeknownst to us) tight race for settling iron (I think). Turned out we lost that race, but we wondered if his asking that meant that we were in fact in a race, and if it affected the timing (i.e. made the other team think they were in a race and so whipped their settler, etc). We won't know till the game is over if that had any effect or not.
As for shadyforce, I am kind of glad too that there is no NAP. Guess that should make it interesting! (I do believe I heard him say he has no copper, so that's good from an pro-horse perspective)
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regoarrarr Wrote:Question for T-hawk or one of the other MM gurus.
I haven't been following the pitboss threads in detail, and now I've been avoiding them in case I'm wanted to step in as a sub turnplayer. But since you asked so nicely...
Quote:I was reading I think it was T-hawk's Adv 38 report
Better not have been reading that report, since that game is still running now 
Quote:So in my situation, I am currently working a rice, a floodplains, a river silk (soon to be 2/0/3 cottaged), and a 2/2/1 ivory. When I grow, I guess I will work the other still forested silk 2/1/1 but I have the choice to send my workers to mine a grass hill or a plains hill. So it sounds like I should go with the grass hill (1/3/1) vs. the plains (0/4/1)?
Definitely the grass hill over the plains hill. The 1 food from the grass hill converts to more than 1 hammer via whip, and can also make the city grow into an extra laborer in the meantime before the next whip. Fairly few cases ever want to work a plains hill first; one is MM where the 1 hammer will finish something a turn sooner. The most typical case is a worker or settler with any hammer boost (forge, Expansive worker, Imperialistic settler) since that boost only applies to the hammer side, and the food is already being converted at a bad 1:1 ratio.
Sometimes whipping is not an option. Maybe you are not and will not run Slavery, in which case the right answer is usually max food until reaching the happy cap, then come off food tiles to work both kinds of hills. Or maybe the city grows so fast that you can't whip faster than the anger clock. In that case the right answer can be plains hills, though more often it's better to either straight-build workers and settlers to stop growth (accepting the 1:1 food  conversion), or go specialists instead.
Quote:Or should I continue to work the 2/1/1 silks?
This can go either way. Compared to the grass hill, that's +1 food and -2 hammers. That's about the same ratio as whipping. The upside of the hill is getting the hammers without a whip anger penalty; the upside of the silks is that the food may grow another citizen for more overall productivity.
Quote:My current plan is to grow to size 6, then triple whip a settler for max overflow and put the overflow into a doubled library as I re-grow.
Sounds good to me. For maximum efficiency, wait at size 6 until the food box is nearly full, so that post-whip the (smaller) box is overfull, so you can regrow from size 3 to 4 even on the same turn that the settler completes. This decision also isn't clear, though - you may decide that starting the new city sooner will outweigh the few turns of having an extra capital laborer.
regoarrarr Wrote:I WB'd a test - all those inland seas on this map count as coastal.
Key is the size of the water mass. A city must touch a water mass containing 10 or more tiles (and therefore saltwater) to be coastal. A coastal city qualifies to build coastal improvements (GLH, Moai, harbor) and gets the GLH bonus.
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