RBP3 [SPOILERS] Hannibal of Byzantium (Bobchillingworth, ManiaMuse & SleepingMoogle)

[Bobchillingworth]

Looked good to me, sent. I did include a brief line about us being willing to trade sceen shots- I figure we don't want to send them images of our capital or anything that gives away our defenses, but no reason they shouldn't be allowed to see, say, some of the random land to our west that they have no chance of being able to settle.

[Bobchillingworth]

Just concluded a nice and fairly long chat with all of team Babylon. Kyan continues to be very forthcoming with information. The chat is saved in our team inbox (in two parts, I believe)- feel free to read it at your leisure. The main points are that:

* TT and Whosit apparently wanted Kyan to use the same bargineers 101 tactic I suggested we deploy of asking for too much and then stepping back; they were going to argue for a city 2W of the copper Thankfully Kyan was having none of this and decided that 3W of the copper was a better site for them to settle. They expected us to settle 1E of the copper.

* I argued that they should settle 1SW of the pig, while we settle directly on the copper. This was a major sticking point, as they are very concerned about having cultural control over both the rice and pigs. I was eventually able to sucessfully argue for a proposal where we settle 1N of the copper and they settle 1SW the pigs. I will defer to team judgment on this issue, however I strongly urge we take 1N the copper as it has minimal overlap with Feros, does not contain the worthless desert, and has better food. We should write the rice and pigs off as losses; we can't win a cultural battle any time soon for them, and while we could concievably settle area first, we would ruin any chance of long-term cooperation.

* I was able to convince Babylon to research writing and alphabet while we take Iron Working after pottery, and then continuing the trend after that of their taking the top half while we work on the bottom. So Iron Working next, I think. They would like us to scout their land once we can have open borders, in order to scan for iron. They also would like to know about any sources of horses we find in their area. I told them that we would keep them informed.

* Babylon has either met England or will soon. Mali has already met England. The three of them are or will be in talks regarding forming a tech bloc soon- we have been invited by Babylon to join them. This could be a very big break for us- let's take them up on the offer and stay as close to Babylon as possible.

* We should talk to Kyan frequently, he is very liberal with information. This also makes him a fairly natural ally.

* After settling toward us, Babylon will be sending their settlers north and south, so we should be able to concentrate in other directions as well (south for the FP, E so we don't lose out a 1st-ring city to whoever we border there; assume the NW will be fairly secure for a while.)

* Babylon is indeed constructing spears because we have (well, will have)chariots. Not much we can do about that, but let's get that copper hooked up sooner rather than later. 4th city probably, I then suggest the 5th secure the east and the next one or two take as many southern FP as possible.

Note: Babylon is expecting an email from us formalizing settling arrangments, tech trading / cooperation, and scouting. I think we should throw an NAP in their as well, as Kyan has mentioned his interest in one. Post any drafts in this thread, if you don't mind.

[SleepingMoogle]

That's some pretty impressive bargaining skills there! Losing the pig resource to Babylon was pretty much a given.. it's a bit unfortunate we won't have the rice either, but c'est la vie. At least we're agreeing on many things really quickly, which is good for establishing longer-term relations. The city placement would pretty much turn the river into the border between our civs, which I'm fine with. All in all, it looks to be a pretty even division of land.

Settling 1N of the copper would put us on a hill for defense and get two floodplains within the city border. We lose the fresh water connection though, and there's no forests in the inner circle for quick chops. It's probably a better spot than east of the copper, but we'll need to get the copper hooked up asap and use it to construct a monument.



On tech trading, we seem to have some pretty interesting partners. England, Mali, Babylon and ourselves would be a strong team to say the least. And since we are on the outer edge, it allows us to expand towards the east if needed. I'd like to try and contact both with Jenkins so we can discuss it without having to go through Babylon, but we probably will want to try and join the bloc.

Trade-wise, we probably need something more than just Iron Working to work out a deal. Writing costs 120 beakers to research, and Alphabet 300 (before the difficulty multiplier). Iron Working costs only 200 beakers in comparison. Perhaps we can make a future deal where they research Mathematics (250 beakers) for our Metal Casting (450 beakers)? We still want to get this done fairly quickly to get a great engineer right? :-)

If we research Masonry at some point, we could also offer to trade it along with Meditation for Hunting and Archery. It's slightly in their favor, but should more or less equal out the original trade offers.

Of course, this will depend a lot on what other members in the possible tech bloc are doing. If Mali is going for quick Metal casting for Mints (I kind of expect them to), we may have to make a deal involving Horseback Riding instead. We should be able to trade IW + some other techs to them for Metal Casting in that case.

Not sure how England would fit in.. perhaps they can follow the techs to Monarchy and trade them around? Alternatively, they could follow the currency line while Babylon goes after literature etc, or vice versa.



I don't have time to write a mail at this point, but can do so this evening. I'd like to propose the following:

*We agree to settle 1N of the copper ourselves, and allow them to settle 1SW of the pigs. Culture will most likely establish the river as an informal border, which we are fine with.

*We promise that our third city will not go in their diretion, but will want to settle our fourth city to access the copper.

*We will move Jenkins north a bit to scout the land there, then start moving west to contact Mali. We will probably skirt the northern borders of Babylon in the process. If we encounter and horses close to their lands, we will inform them. We also agree to scout Babylon lands after open borders (probably with Jenkins), and inform them or iron resources.

*We agree to trade screenshots of the 'disputed' area. We won't include the capital area, but Feros's location should be fine. They will more than likely find it themselves in the next few turns anyhow.
As a gesture of good faith, we probably should send our screenshot with the mail.

*As a second gesture, we should inform them that we will be sending a scouting unit east as well, and to inform them if we encounter anyone there.

*We express interest in joining the tech-bloc, but prefer to contact the other participants first. This shouldn't be an issue, since it'll be a while before Alphabet is researched anyhow.

*We make the offer to trade writing and alphabet versus Iron Working and another tech. The second one depends on what other members of the tech alliance are doing, but we should propose the mathematics vs metal casting. If that doesn't work, we can propose to trade masonry + meditation vs Archery and hunting, and promise to gift the HBR after we research it.




On the home front, two things of note:

The next turn might be a bit confusing, as chariots aren't yet available right at the start, so here's what to do: When the Worker finishes, set production to anything (A warrior, say), and then spend Anoleis's turn to finish hooking up the horses. After that, swap the production to a chariot. The overflow will be reassigned that way.

Jenkins should move N next turn, onto the floodplain. It lessens the chance of encountering barbs in the fog, and they would have to cross a river to attack him.

[ManiaMuse]

Nice work guys, I think I'm convinced enough that we aren't being taken for a ride by Babylon (well at least they aren't planning to immediately rush us). Hopefully their creative trait won't be too much of a nuisance.

I don't really have time to write anything at the moment as I've just been pretty busy the last few days. Though I would be happy with pretty much anything you send as long at this point in time.

[Bobchillingworth]

The proposed details for the email sound perfect; compose & send it away at your leisure. I won't be able to do any diplomacy for several hours myself, so don't wait on my account.

[SleepingMoogle]

Turn 45:

We finished our Second Worker at the Citadel. Renamed Barla Von, he moved onto the hill SW of the citadel and will start chopping next turn. Anoleis hooked up the horses next to Feros, and the Citadel has started on our first Chariot.

Jenkins continued to scout towards the north. Not much new was discovered, but he looks to be safe for now.

The other major change this turn was the adaption of Slavery. We're spending this turn in anarchy so nothing is produced. It also looks like this turn costs us no maintenance, so we end up a little ahead in gold. This may allow us to finish Pottery a turn sooner than expeced.. I'll have to check that once we're out of anarchy again.

Here's an overview:



Babylon hadn't logged in to play their turn yet so their warrior is still in the fog. I'm expecting we'll know where he is again after they moved him.

[SleepingMoogle]

I have sent the following message to Kyan & Co,

Greetings esteemed leaders of Babylon,

It is with great honor that we present to you our first official proposal, which hopefully will mark the dawn of an era of mutual cooperation to advance both of our great nations into ages of wonder and marvel. We sincerely hope you will find the contents acceptable and are confident, given our good relations so far, that any amends, if needed, will be swiftly agreend upon.

After discussing our recent communications regarding settlement of the area in between our lands, we are pleased to accept the provisional agreement that was reached. To reiterate: we will settle a city on the hill overlooking a rich vein of copper directly south of it, whereas Babylon settles on the hill west of the river, surrounded by abundant and fertile land.

By ceding the area to the west of this river, we estimate that this river will eventually form an unofficial border between our lands, leading from the northern mountains to a lake in south in which it empties. The lands further north or south may deviate from this pattern, but further exploration should allow us to hold similar communications once the nature of these areas becomes clear. Additionally, we wish to make the promise that the next expansion of our glorious nation will not be in your direction, as to avoid generating the impression amongst your subjects that we are encroaching on your lands.

This official missive also contains a map composed by our finest artists that will most certainly provide detailed knowledge of the western part of our lands. We are hopeful that this map will aid your own exploration efforts, and would be greatly interested in knowing more about your eastern lands also. The area has been cleared of dangerous wildlife beforehand, so that your own exploration may not be impeded or hazardous.

In the meantime, our scout Jenkins is finishing his original assignment to explore the area to the north of our point of first contact. We are happy to share with you any points of interest are unveiled during these travels. As mentioned, we have provided additional directives for his journey to swing West afterwards, with the intention of contacting your western neigbour, Mali. This journey will likely bring Jenkins close to your borders, but we hope this will not be interpreted as hostile intent. As requested, any sightings of horses in great number will be shared with you.

Additionally, we are willing to help explore your lands for useful metals if so desired. It is likely at this point that Jenkins will be tasked with this effort, though should this change, we will ensure to inform you immediately.

Finally, we wish to share with you our desire to send another scouting force towards our east, with the intent of further exploring the area and contact other cultures. We promise to share any contact with other cultures with you, and will inform them of your civilization in return for as long as you favor this course of action.

Regarding your proposal of a formalized exchange of knowledge with the nations to your west, we would like to express out interest into joining this venture. This is another reason why we wish to contact Mali and England, as not to burden you with acting as a go-between.

In the short term, we have also prepared an initial offer of exchanging knowledge. We have been assured that this document can be interpreted and translated by your wise scholars:

"At this moment, the proposed tech trade is uneven; before the difficulty modifier, Writing (120 beakers) and Alphabet (300) are double the price of Iron Working (200). We would therefore like to make an additional offer to even out the trade. This depends a lot on Mali's and England's efforts, but hopefully this will be a fair offer:

Writing (120) and Alphabet (300) for Iron Working (200)
Mathematics (250) for Metal Casting (450)

We are fairly sure at this point that Mali will want to get Metal Casting early. In that case we would like to make the following offer:

Hunting (40) and Archery (60) for Meditation (80) and Masonry (80)
We will then research Horseback riding (250) and gift it to you.

The latter would require a wait for a return of investment for you. That is why the second group of tech trades are favourable to you.

Hopefully these trades are acceptable to you. We are happy to consider counteroffers."

We are sure you will have noticed that part of our governing apparatus is conducting studies on your nation. Similarly, we are aware of a similar effort from your subjects. We would like to ensure that these efforts only reach a general awareness of the other's progress, and that once these studies have finished, that the efforts will then be spent elsewhere.

Finally, we have considered your offer to provide a solemn pledge not to initiate aggresion towards each other. While we wish to underline our peaceful intent, it is perhaps wise to come to a more formal agreement. We would therefore respectfully asks what form you desire such an agreement to take.

We are eagerly awaiting your response,

On behalf of the Spectre Council,
-SleepingMoogle

I have attached this screenshot to the mail:




I need to dust off some flowery speech too, heh. But I think it'll be well-received.

[ManiaMuse]

Yeah, perhaps make the following emails a little less flowery :P

[SleepingMoogle]

Heh.. I will bedazzle and awe them!

Anyway, turn 46 came in really quickly. I left science on 0% this turn.. we don't really need Pottery that early, and in the worst case we just need one less turn on 0% when researching towards IW.

Actions on the turnplan were followed. Anoleis moved into a forest and will chop next turn. Barla Von started chopping the plains hill. And we now have whipping available to us. ^^

Scouting revealed nothing of note, although a lion appeared on the tile W of the lake next to Feros. I sent a quick mail to Babylon warning them about it.

[SleepingMoogle]

It looks like the turn rolled over right after I left for work. I won't have Civ access until late this afternoon, but here's the turnplan at least:

Turn 47 (Pottery in 7 turns, Science back to 100%, 38 gold)

Anoleis: Chops grassland forest (2T)
Barla Von: Chops forested plains river hill (1T)

Citadel: 18/26 food, 13/30 production (Chariot)
Working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]

Feros: 9/22 food, 21/30 production (Monument)
Working Pastured plains horses [1/4/1]

Not too much is happening. Science should be set back to 100% this turn, and Anoleis needs to start chopping the forest he's in. Jenkins should continue scouting if nothing happened during the interturn, either NW or N into one of the forests. I think I marked the NW tile since we'll want to get in contact with Mali at some point.

Kyan sent a quick mail acknowledging they received our initial offer. They're probably discussing it right now.