RB PBEM #1 - Gandhi [spoilers]

[Ruff_Hi]

The options are:

spy bomb for 3000 EPs
settle for 12EPs per turn + 3bpt

From a straight EP point of view, that 3000 is 250 turns worth. A spy bomb at this stage would basically make sooooo's empire an open book for me. I could see everything inside his cultural borders, investigate his cities, etc, etc. All passively, with no need to locate spies in his territory.

From a military point of view, sooooo is my biggest threat. Dreylin and I are working pretty close together and I don't think that we will come to blows. The other two (mh, athlete) are too far away to worry about.

So, spy bombing sooooo also acts as an early warning system as you stated.

... a spy bomb lets you see the status of sooooo's war preparations continuously, you can be ready to respond in case the NAP ever ends, or in case he decides to break it at some point. Moreover, knowing this, he may be more reluctant to prepare aggressive action against you in the first place.

Also, your comments regarding ...

- Along the same lines, if you have massive numbers of EPs stacked up against sooooo without using them, they'll be hanging up there like the sword of Damacles in case relations degrade between you. In other words, sooooo might be reluctant to let relations degrade if he knows you'll be able to throw cities into revolt or otherwise sabotage him, or steal him blind, if the NAP ever ends.

... are right on the money. This investment of a GP like this, while potentially destabilizing in the short term (due to how sooooo thinks I might use it), can have the side benefit of impeding sooooo on the military front.

I sent sooooo an email (see above) to open dialog but we haven't hooked up yet.

[kalin]

This is so great! I love it IOUs on techs being sold around. Great entertainment, thanks for sharing this.

K

[sunrise089]

Lurker's comment:

The only negative I can see is this:

If you plan to attack Soooo later and he knows you have visibility everywhere, he can't bluff you with a paper army. So that may make him create a larger defensive army in his border city. Therefore he may never attack you due to your early warning system, but he also may not expose himself to attack either.

[Ruff_Hi]

If you plan to attack Soooo later and he knows you have visibility everywhere, he can't bluff you with a paper army. So that may make him create a larger defensive army in his border city. Therefore he may never attack you due to your early warning system, but he also may not expose himself to attack either.

True - but this isn't much of a downside as I fully expect sooooo to keep his once entrance fully stocked.

[Ruff_Hi]

• FF - worker [2]
  
• LQ - barracks [5], hired 2 scientists
  
• DV - granary [6]
  
• Thing #1 - farm corn at DV
  
• Thing #2 - chop at 2nd spice
  
• Thing #3 - cottage at LQ
  
• Thing #4 - cottage at capital
  
• Scout (Dead Man Walking) - exploring sooooo's North
  
• Scout (Live Man Walking) - heading back W
  
• Chariot XP=2 - heading to explore balance of map (W) and kill barbs
  
• axe - hunting barb in South
  
• Tech - Theology [8]
  
• GP [16] @ LQ 100% scientist
  
• Spy - in sooooo's land
  

I was planning on a game overview every 10 turns, but it doesn't feel like much has happened. I'll do a game overview on Turn 65 (if I remember ).

[Ruff_Hi]

sooooo and I finally had that chat ...

ruff_hi: I'm around if you are
sooooo: ah, hello
ruff_hi: wanted to reinforce the 'no harmful spying' part of our NAP and that includes stealing tech
sooooo: hmm, ok. so what's the point of the spy bomb?
sooooo: your message made me think you were going to cancel the nap later on
ruff_hi: sorry - give me 10 misn
sooooo: ok
ruff_hi: sorry - just trying to organize a 25th anniversy present
sooooo: aw, you've been married 25 years?
ruff_hi: not planning on cancelling NAP any time soon ... if at all
sooooo: ok, that's good
ruff_hi: yep on Sept 1st
ruff_hi: first day of spring
sooooo: can you see the confusion from my part though - you could spy bomb someone that you don't have a no harmful spying part and then steal their tech. or you could spy bomb me and .... watch me cities?
sooooo: that's impressive. Will be my 1st anniversary in a couple of weeks.
ruff_hi: yes to the second one
ruff_hi: watch cities (which might sound like a waste) but also act as a 'trust but verify' approach
ruff_hi: and you have 1 kid?
sooooo: yes, he's 18 months
sooooo: ok, so it's quite a good security measure I admit
sooooo: and it doesn't go against our NAP I agree
sooooo: so if you can see all of my troops, can I persuade you for a longer minimum NAP?
ruff_hi: just think ... if I do a good job reporting in the thread, you will not need to post
ruff_hi: such as ... ?
sooooo: haha, good point
sooooo: you can post my screenshots of my cities and get the lurkers to say where i'm going wrong
sooooo: err what turn is it now?
sooooo: about 60?
ruff_hi: 60
ruff_hi: we have 15 min, 15 notice at the moment ... started on turn 43?
ruff_hi: so we are in the 15 minimum turns of notification phase
sooooo: do you want to extend the minimum NAP? say to around T100?
ruff_hi: summary: NAP between Greece and India until T100 with a 15 turn notification starting at T85
ruff_hi: is that what you are requesting?
sooooo: it is my idea yes. what do you think about it?
ruff_hi: sounds good to me
ruff_hi: so YES
sooooo: ok, good
ruff_hi: so, (say), on T90 you want to cancel, you dial me up, say 'I want out' and the NAP expires on T105
sooooo: yes
ruff_hi: just confirming our 15 turn notification
ruff_hi: ok - good, and DONE
ruff_hi: so - how close to THG are you?
sooooo: haha
ruff_hi: I am not building it by the way
sooooo: oh
sooooo: i expected you were
sooooo: i thought you have built 2 stone wonders and so would go for it
ruff_hi: I don't have stone connected yet
ruff_hi: my stone is miles away
ruff_hi: I guess yours is close
ruff_hi: from the jump in your production graph
sooooo: oh right. needless to say I cannot confirm or deny any rumours about hanging gardens
ruff_hi: and YES, I build those 2 stone wonders the hard way
sooooo: that damn production graph!
sooooo: I bet m-h will have noticed
sooooo: don't have his demographics yet
ruff_hi: I bet everyone is chopping like made
ruff_hi: mad
ruff_hi: I have eveyrone's at the moment
sooooo: I can't say I've been watching the graphs or demographics much. life is too short for a C&D dept in my games
ruff_hi: ok - I have to go ... see you in-game
sooooo: ok, see ya

So, is this whimping out? Is this backing off stealing techs via EPs? I suppose so. However, my little civ is feeling a little vunerable at the moment, DV has no defenders and LQ only has 3 warriors. I am totally playing this game in SP mode (and assuming no Monty).

[Ruff_Hi]

• FF - worker [2]
  
• LQ - barracks [4], hired 2 scientists
  
• DV - granary [1]
  
• Thing #1 - farm corn at DV
  
• Thing #2 - chop at 2nd spice
  
• Thing #3 - moved to chop next city site
  
• Thing #4 - cottage at capital
  
• Scout (Dead Man Walking) - exploring sooooo's North
  
• Scout (Live Man Walking) - heading back W
  
• Chariot XP=2 - heading to explore balance of map (W) and kill barbs
  
• axe - moving to DV
  
• Tech - Theology [7]
  
• GP [15] @ LQ 100% scientist
  
• Spy - +2000 EPs against sooooo (the 3k figure was for normal speed)
  

Sooooo is intentionally delaying the HGs ...



You can see that he could easily work a 3H tile and complete it last turn. He must be planning to put down a city at the start of next turn. I've emailed this information to mh () and I really hopes that he can steal it from sooooo. Another source of GEs in this city will really give him a boost. BTW, his first Great Person (100% of Engineer) is due next turn.

Finally, re the insert above (that is from a Sparta), why is its happy cap 7 while mine is 5? Where does he get the 'we really like this city' boost from?

And it would seem that my spy net is not as good as I thought it would be ...


Sooooo is working a tile in the fog Looks like I will actually have to reveal all of the tiles ... or it could be a game mechanics thing and the EPs don't kick into full gear until next turn.

[Iamjohn]

From my experience you'll have to reveal the tile yourself.

[Jabah]

The "we love this great city of ours" is the +3 happy from representation (there are an "other" advantage of representation than boosting specialists research you know ... )

[T-hawk]

Finally, re the insert above (that is from a Sparta), why is its happy cap 7 while mine is 5? Where does he get the 'we really like this city' boost from?

I believe that's Representation. It's worded that way to indicate it's one of the 5 largest cities and that not all cities get it.

edit: ninjaed by Jabah, but at least I can point out that the image does say +3 happy, not +2 :neenernee