RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[dazedroyalty]

i don't agree with this. if you go back and read our message to them, it contained several things

1) we established a concrete agreement - we'd exchange info on meeting other civs
2) we gave them a good deal on the info exchange and made it clear this was designed to improve relations
3) we gave them info, telling them we hadn't met anyone
4) we not only told them an NAP was "something we're willing to start working towards" but also told them what we needed to make it happen
5) we repeatedly indicated a strong desire for peaceful relationships, even using the word ally
6) last but not least, remember i had specifically decided not to put any questions/ask any info in our message to see how forthcoming they'd be.

our 2 messages to each other were worlds apart. their tone is non-committal while ours is friendly. we give info, establish concrete agreements, and say what we need for future agreements to happen - their reply is light on information and again totally non-committal. we signed ours off asking if they were doing ok and making friendly overtures, they ended theirs with a (misquoted) conan line.

i'm not going to read too much into it at this stage, early diplo is delicate, but i don't agree their reply is a natural consequence of our message.

I won't be able to post today much because it's the drive back to Chicago, hopefully in time for the superbowl. I do have a couple of quick thoughts. I tend to agree more with MB regarding A4's message. I don't think it was rude, offensive, or provocative, but I do tend to believe that it was in a less friendly tone than I'd hope for. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and let more messages go by before judging. So we'll see. This is what makes Pitboss fun!

Regarding the warrior not moving towards the capitol, I wouldn't offer that freely. The "coincidently" or "incidently" language doesn't seem strong. It feels like we're saying "see? we're okay. honest!" I tend to prefer simply stating that our warrior is moving away from their capitol. If we do it right, we're 1) "giving" them info on our warrior movement, 2) letting them know we're aware of their capitol defense situation, and 3) willingly choosing not to threaten them. I don't want to hold up the message going out so if I'm afk I trust you guys to word it right to sound friendly, but strong.

[meatbalz]

i actually sent them a quick reply a few hours ago

A4, we acknowledge receipt of your message. Tricky won't be moving any closer to your capital (not that it matters as you should have "Conan Jr" in there shortly, I'm assuming). We'll have a more complete response for you shortly.

Meatbalz for DIM

now, a question for D+I and the lurkers. cortes survived (with 0.5 health ) but i can't promote him - anyone know why? i'm completely new to MP.

as far as tricky dick is concerned, he moved SE, saw nothing of note. the only forest towards the capital is E + protected by river so it seems the natural place to move next. worker due in 1.

[dazedroyalty]

Has the turn rolled over already? Maybe it has something to do with when Barbs move in MP?

[meatbalz]

a couple of thoughts.

one of the teams has a crop yield of 9. there are no size 3 cities. that means either a 4 food + 3 food tile are being worked, or a 5 food + 2 food tile. i'm not sure how sulla balanced the starts out - maybe some starts got a 3-food resource and others 2 2-food ones? if that's the case we got the better deal food-wise, although it's probably way too early to speculate on that.

another thing - i agree with ilios that there's a very good chance aquilonia is W of our position. it's possible the ottomans are actually NW of where we first met based on conan's movements:



there are 2 things that make that less likely though
1) if conan were simply headed S/SE, tricky dick would see him now
2) it seemed to me they were a bit taken aback to see our warrior (particularly chatting in-game with pegasus)

the more likely scenario is conan is going on a wide loop around aquilonia and is now headed W/NW. so that means we have to choose whether we delay contact with other civs and send cortes S/SE, or we forfeit info on A4 and keep cortes on a W/NW course.

FYI we only have 5 turns before A4's capital expands. at least 2 of those turns will be spent healing. so unless aquilonia is further N than we think, i don't think we'll make it in time.

[Ilios]

now, a question for D+I and the lurkers. cortes survived (with 0.5 health ) but i can't promote him - anyone know why? i'm completely new to MP.

Hmm, no idea I'll have a look when I get home.

one of the teams has a crop yield of 9. there are no size 3 cities. that means either a 4 food + 3 food tile are being worked, or a 5 food + 2 food tile. i'm not sure how sulla balanced the starts out - maybe some starts got a 3-food resource and others 2 2-food ones? if that's the case we got the better deal food-wise, although it's probably way too early to speculate on that.

The Ottomans now are now working a 5 food tile. They're size 2 now, so that makes it 5+2+2 = 9
Check the graphs, you'll see.

there are 2 things that make that less likely though
1) if conan were simply headed S/SE, tricky dick would see him now
2) it seemed to me they were a bit taken aback to see our warrior (particularly chatting in-game with pegasus)

the more likely scenario is conan is going on a wide loop around aquilonia and is now headed W/NW. so that means we have to choose whether we delay contact with other civs and send cortes S/SE, or we forfeit info on A4 and keep cortes on a W/NW course.

FYI we only have 5 turns before A4's capital expands. at least 2 of those turns will be spent healing. so unless aquilonia is further N than we think, i don't think we'll make it in time.

I think Conan will be heading SW then W and NW. I would like to risk moving Hernan SE to where we suspect Aquilonia is, without healing to full strength (we should be at 0.8 after taking the promotion.

[Ilios]

I do tend to believe that it was in a less friendly tone than I'd hope for. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and let more messages go by before judging.

Exactly my thoughts!

I had a chat with ad hoc from A4, and got him to admit they were moving Conan clockwards around Aquilonia. I also told him we were scratching our hair a bit concerning their non-commital vague message. He told me they were still working on diplomacy in their first real MP game, and he'd pass the message to the other team members. Anyway, let's see if they reply anything else in a couple of days.

[meatbalz]

great stuff ilios, really useful info all round

i tend to agree with you on cortes, as long as we're on forest we'll get +ve odds on anything other than a bear, which we'd probably lose to at full strength anyway. if we're able to get insight into aquilonia that will be very helpful.

[Ilios]

In the technical thread, I asked why Hernan couldn't take a promotion this turn, and the only answer I got so far is the very constructive "try next turn"...

We have exactly 6 turns to get visibility on Aquilonia before it pops border again. To have a shot at it, we'd have to move Hernan SW SW now, at .5 health and I can't guarantee the tile will be a forest. So I haven't ended the turn yet, I'd be happy with taking the chance or staying and healing. Up to you guys.

We've had quite a few point increases all from land. (9 tiles = 4 points)
So I now know that at least 5 teams didn't found on T1.
The only thing I really don't get is why Byzantium increased their score by 3to 37. They couldn't have finished a settler this quick, and I'm quite sure they couldn't have captured Korea's capital (as it was at size 1, worker was just finished)

Edit: Ok nevermind, Byzantium started with 2-3 Lake/Sea tiles in its BFC

[meatbalz]

i'm leaving that call to you ilios. my vote would be a no but i'm not completely opposed to risking it so if you feel strongly, go for it

[dazedroyalty]

I vote no to moving Hernan wounded becuase even if we make it to their capitol we'd still have to be lucky to get visibility on their cap via hill. I just don't think the benefit is worth the potential risk, especially since we aren't even guaranteed the benefit!