Zalson plays one turn at a time [COMPLETE]

[novice]

You can only overflow 80 hammers from the temple, and your +100% is divided out of that overflow AFTER the capping. So you can overflow a max of 40 base hammers from the temple.

[Zalson]

Thanks, Novice, for explaining that overflow. So, whipping a double-production tile isn’t as advantageous as a normal whip. What's better is to whip something into the +100% bonus. Good to know. So, whip units into buildings.

Well, I whipped Mecca …

T161
Mecca whips that temple for not as a good overflow as I thought. I actually should have just kept on building it… I would have 7 - maybe 6 turns left…



Najran switches off the palace and on to a Theatre.

Thebes starts a theatre to overflow onto shwedagon. This will run into the same problem as the temple in Mecca ... I take it that the game takes bonuses into account when accommodating a whip? So I could switch off org religion, whip, then multiply the overflow by 25%? Would that be worthwhile? I don't think so...



Pi-Ramesses starts a Madrassa. This’ll be quite a low production city — although I do plan on workshopping the plains tiles for the extra production.

T162
Well those are some interesting movements…. although perhaps less interesting on second thought. The majority of the stack is still in fine shape. Although this does make me realize the need to clear out that jungle around Elephantine.



(just an axe and a chariot/catapult pair moved out of the city, plus the longbow moved S).

That late whip wasn’t not as effective as hoped.



Will need to whip this theatre right before completion in Najran for max hammers (right)?



Sadly, I’re realized that … I need more workers. Or at least more workers up north. There aren’t enough in position for the cities that need to go up there. Probably need at least 2 but more than likely 4 up there.

Got the flying camera working.

[Zalson]

Lost the music great Artist -- it wasn't a race but I still lost it. A report coming probably at lunch time #playingonthetrain #needmoreworkers

This means I probably need Alpha + exploration to see what my competitors have.

[Zalson]

T162
2x whip the Madrassa at Memphis. Might as well get the infra out asap.

T163
Music completes! However, someone else, it would appear, already got the great artist… I checked the event log before I researched it too and didn’t see the artist. T163 is probably a little too late for that.

I can overflow to complete horseback riding so I’ll do that to get some Stables up.

Kufah finishes settler, start a Jewish missionary. The settler initially heads up north to a spot on the tundra that has a lot of food but not much else. Then, after thinking about it, I’ve decided for spot 3 a little closer to home. No need to pop the maintenance up by that much.

Goal will be to work a 1/2h plains forest to pop borders in 2T (2+1 hammers plus judaism + monument). That should get me enough time to get some workers in position for the deer.



Realistically, I probably should have sent this off to the double seafood spot NW of Najran. Damn it...

Start market in Memphis. On second thought, we’ll go wealth until I can get judaism in that city (although the overflow will probably go for a worker).

3x whip Elephantine for its market. Overflow will go into a theatre to help fight against Hangzhou’s culture.

HBR will be followed by … I’m not sure…

I think it will be machinery + compass + optics. I need to know what my competition is researching — plus where i stand when it comes to tech.

[Mardoc]

Thanks, Novice, for explaining that overflow. So, whipping a double-production tile isn’t as advantageous as a normal whip. What's better is to whip something into the +100% bonus. Good to know. So, whip units into buildings.

Generally it works out as a wash, actually.  For example, suppose your temple was sitting at 70/80 complete.  Whip for 30 base hammers, which is multiplied by the bonus up to 60, leaving you at 130/80.  50 overflow gets divided by 2 back to 25 overflow...which is basically what you'd expect from a 1-pop whip overflowing from an almost-done item.  Same result as if you 1-pop whipped into a 30/35 axe.  In fact, that's the main idea: the designers put a good bit of effort into trying to remove micromanagement, so that for the most part it doesn't matter what turn you do things. Same reason why production and research overflow, granaries start filling when built instead of being instantly effective, and probably half a dozen other little quirks. They didn't perfectly succeed, but you can't get nearly the same benefit from micromanagement in Civ4 as you could in Civ3.

Thebes starts a theatre to overflow onto shwedagon. This will run into the same problem as the temple in Mecca ... I take it that the game takes bonuses into account when accommodating a whip? So I could switch off org religion, whip, then multiply the overflow by 25%?

This *is* possible, or at least something similar.  I think the idea is that you apply the whip while still in OR, but switch out before the game calculates overflow so it doesn't divide by 100+25%.  

You can also occasionally get the same result by careful hooking/pillaging of doubler resources, like stone when building walls.

Would that be worthwhile? I don't think so...

but...I think you're right here.  It's possible to set up a situation where you get more overflow than you should.  It's very hard to set it up so that the bonus hammers are worth the tradeoff - particular losing OrgRel for the rest of your empire while you do it - and only Spi can realistically pull it off anyway.

I'm sure there are special cases where it can be profitable, but it's not something you'll be doing all the time.

[Zalson]

T164



Muscat founded. It’ll work culture until it pops borders.

Start a stable at Basra, which is growing on the ocean. Need to get my workshop and desert hill mine down.


Research stats on Machinery.


I realized that I’ve made some poor choices in terms of wonders. The infrastructure I’m building has been kind of by rote, but in most places, the choices have been strong (why I’m building a theatre in Helipolis doesn’t make a lot of sense but other than that, most of them seem sound).

But, while Shwedagon Paya is decent, you know what would be a better choice for me? Getting philosophy. I can research it now, after Feudalism, which would be nice for the knights and all…

Same with Great Library — it’s nice but with 2x rival GNP and climbing, 7 bpt isn’t going to be worth that much. 2 extra scientists neither…

Much better than trying for both those wonders: settlers to fill up my island.


I think that now, my priority is going to be figuring out the tech situation on the other continent. I am pretty sure I’m in the lead but it’d be nice to know. After that, it’ll be rifling — and then I can hope to bring this game to a bloody conclusion.

T165
Medina starts a settler due in 5T.

damascus starts a worker, then I cancel it for more wealth.

Start stable in Kufah (which will also need another tile to worth shortly).

Start National Epic in Thebes.

Alexandria starts a lighthouse, due in 8T. Actually, there’s no Judaism there. Hold it on wealth for the time being.


Mansura founded. It starts on culture (with the bug to be used into a granary). Then i realize that it doesn’t need any more tiles.

Workers are moving North/East from the jungles of Egypt. Realistically, I could use about 3 or 4 more with all the cities I am planting.

Espionage on Mr. Qin reveals he’s building the parthenon in Hangzhou (which I would like to burn) and Statue of Zeus in Beijing. So that’ll make him a nicer target. build wonders dude!

[Zalson]

T166
Nearly all worker movement for these turns. My efficiency there is definitely increasing.



Start a Jewish missionary in Thebes; the 2x whip (I think I can do that?) will overflow to the national epic.



I missing some garrisons around my lands, so some places that were holding builds now switch to archers.

Trying to decide on where I send my settler from Medina next turn. We shall see…

[Zalson]

T166

The most important item of business this turn: where’s Medina’s settler go:



I think we go right here: it has the food to get off the ground and workers will be in the area shortly. So I need to start a workboat in Heliopolis/Thebes sometimes soon. Probably heliopolis.

T167
Start a workboat in Heliopolis and in Thebes … GAH!



Well that’s a let down. But I guess that each whip now products 42 hammers with a forge (30/.25 = 12). Dag yo. so I reconfigure Thebes for hammers to get the missionary out sooner than later. There’s not much point in whipping here, though.

Not sure I understand this choice.





T168
Mecca gets the great Library. Star a courthouse while growing to 15. Then a settler. Need to get rid some farms, I think. Watermills, maybe? They’re not the best *now* but eventually they’ll be better. And I’m not sure I want a cottage there? (EDIT: that’s dumb, yes I do).



Decided against whipping Najran into the Palace. the 1-pop whip doesn’t get me a lot — and the citie’s size 17. And has 3 sets of whip unhappiness. I’ll let that burn off before I give it a try.

Just some quiet builder turns. Two hammer cities are building horse archers for the time being.

[T-hawk]

Well that’s a let down. But I guess that each whip now products 42 hammers with a forge (30/.25 = 12).

Try that math again.  A whip yields 37.5 hammers (truncated to 37) with a forge.

To double-whip a missionary with a forge in place, you'll need to have 3 or fewer (but not 0) hammers in the box.  This isn't easy.

BTW, not to hijack, but in playing Civ 5 I don't miss all that gamey whip stuff in 4 at all.

[Zalson]

Stupid math.

I am enjoying that fully 1/2 of T-Hawk's comments in this thread are variations on "Check your math."

Thanks. I do appreciate it.

Also, this is probably the first game where I've ever even tried that gamey whip stuff so it's not even something I knew I could miss!