Arise, Riders of Rohanna! Ride for Molach! [SPOILERS!]

[Molach]

Regarding future conflict and diplomacy, my other option is probably gonna be to work towards defeating Serdoa. He is growing fast, and his GnP is keeping up and improving, so he will probably outgrow the rest of us. It is just possible that all 3 non-Orc civs must work together some time in the future. Not necessary a dogpile, more like "avoid staggering NAPs with Serdoa" and "pledge/promise/threat of mutual defensive action" if he does attack.

My role here might be to be ready to support a civ being declared on (tricky) and to make sure gtAngel and Whosit agrees about NAPs and that if Serdoa can swallow one civ with little oppotunity cost, he will win the game.

But again, need to find some clowns to be able to talk to them.

Memo to self: Unless I'm playing for 2nd place, do not take NAP unless it overlaps with NAPs with both the other civs.

[Ranamar]

Two off-the-cuff reactions to the pyft-war idea:

1) You have horse from your palace. Just get HBR already and use HA over warriors. You can afford to wait that long, rather than going off half-cocked and peeved.
2) Wars are exhausting. The turns can easily take a long time... eliminating him might speed the game up, but fighting him could easily slow the game down in the meantime.

[Molach]

Two off-the-cuff reactions to the pyft-war idea:

1) You have horse from your palace. Just get HBR already and use HA over warriors. You can afford to wait that long, rather than going off half-cocked and peeved.
2) Wars are exhausting. The turns can easily take a long time... eliminating him might speed the game up, but fighting him could easily slow the game down in the meantime.

Good points.

And while tempting meta-wise, I have all the land I need. More gold than I know what to do with. Desperate need to develop my civ after my inital war-efforts. And already a reputation as a warmonger and civ-killer, so perhaps peaceful diplomat is better now. I should tech up as fast as I can, while expanding like a supernova. AH will soon be needed, but HBR not really. Bronzed warriors can fight off barbs for me.

Roamin' demon find the north pole:

No santa's workshop though. More like Satan's workshop.

Hey serdoa, you already scouted out this border. Whazzup?

(No message sent by email)

Last turn warrior was on gold. Then 3 bears moved near. I then moved SW, two bears followed.
I'll go SE on the road, see what's around.

Scout healing up in the pool of tears, warrior coming down to stand guard on a hilltop somewhere. Worker soon to finish here, as well as in capital. Both cities can make 6-turn settlers. Perhaps this is a better way, found bronzeville and gemcraft as soon as possible. Perhaps I _should_ bring the bear-dancer.

(civ wanted my newly completed settler to found right on my city marker near gems, and civ is never wrong...)

Demo:

Looked at graphs. Did not like what I saw. Therefore no picture of ugly graphs.

[Molach]

Just thought of one thing - if gtAngel should suddenly drop in score, Serdoa has 50% more score than next person - so finally he could have barb problems as well....

But since this is at least 20 turns before I could do anything, and more likely 40 turns, I'll just wait and see.

[Molach]

Report to be edited in here.
A quick teaser from the turn: a war was declared, and some of our brave warriors were killed in action.

[Ichabod]

Serdoa went for Amon Harad? Wolf Riders are so annoying!!!

[Molach]

Wolf Riders are so annoying!!!

Glad you agree...

First off, a nice, friendly message...I'm the biggest! Wohoo victory is mine. Soon.


I mentioned a war.

Fortunately, it wasn't against me

And a warrior getting killed...

Yeah I moved SE. After founding Gold river (forgot to rename though) I noticed that I was at -10 income, so would have to delay BW a turn. I didn't want that, so I went for bold move SE. After one move I had nowhere to retreat, so I just pillaged the cottage for 21 gold (at this point, not too bad a deal) so I could power through BW in style. Later he was killed, by the polar bear.

New city. I suppose I could have managed workers differently, and started work on farm this turn, but next turn 2 workers start farming, and one goes for the gold.

2 workers also completed EOT, both my cities will build another warrior then settler. City upkeep is starting to cost but all new cities start with a precious metal so not worried, but I am leaning towards festivals as next tech - get cheap markets up.

However diplomacy is starting. After playing and ending I see this:

Hey Molach,

I don't have much time right now with PB12 starting soon, but as I run everywhere into your guys, just a quick information that I'm not headed your way. I'm fine with a 15 turn NAP if you want, just as security for you.

Also, my unit next to your scout is followed by 2 bears (S and W) and a newly added Wolf-Pack (Str 3, to the NW). I would suggest you move that guy into your borders quickly so that he can heal up before getting beaten down. If you need my unit to block something let me know before I play my turn, with Str4 on the defense I might be able to provide help.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

I reply:

Thanks for the heads-up about those beasts. I read this after I played, so didn't move him - but saw no barb movement after I ended turn (only advantage of being last - I get to see barb movements).

I noticed you declared war on gtAngel, was that another pass through, or for real this time? I have graphs on gtAngel and you, so am not terribly surprised if it is for real. gtAngel has not communicated after initial contact so I know nothing, except that I found his lands not too far to the west...so I guess you r wolf rider found them too.

I accept a 15 turn NAP, standard rules I guess - no offensive action against units or cities, no declaring war until (including) turn 56.

-Molach of Hippus

Now, I think he wants his back clear while he absorbs gtAngel. I'm green in MP battles, but just by looking at the graphs I can't see how gtAngel has a chance. I think that just pillaging would pay back the cost of the war. However there is nothing I can do about it. If gtAngel researches open border tech (city states?) I can actually still move warriors to his land and gift them, violating the spirit but not the letter of the NAP. But I literally have 1 warrior I could send, at the cost of delaying next city foundings. I can't attack Serdoa in 15 turns, because his lands are probably 15 tiles away. I could send 2-3 warriors to defend gtAngel. Perhaps. So this NAP just buys me safety and less need to garrison workers and cities from Serdoan attack.

However I'll be wary of signing a NAP for longer - I should not need one, and I should keep Serdoa on his toes and unable to go all-in on Whosit while I have to watch. Divided we fall, something.

It might of course be a passing-through war...but I suspect it soon will be 3 left. And still no clown contact.
Demos

[Ichabod]

Unit gifting is not possible in FfH. gtAngel can just mass warriors, there's no way Serdoa can take him out if he doesn't simply give up. Well, in due time Serdoa can do it, but it's not exactly easy. I'd sign the NAP and keep with normal plans.

[Molach]

Hey Molach,

tbh, I had found his lands some turns ago and saw his 2nd city is on flatland with just 2 warriors in it. No roads to his capital. Now that my wolf rider got near it I scouted it again and he still had only 2 warriors, still no road connection and no border pop, while he is in Pacifism and Apprenticeship (-30% military unit production total). I don't think he can have a 3rd warrior in there next turn if he hasn't started it several turns ago (as far as I see he can at best produce 10 hammers while starving, which goes down to 7 or 3 turns for a warrior - and that's best case for him actually).

If that's the case, chances are ~75% that he'll lose that city. As I said in my last email, I'm not intending for a full war but I will take opportunities if I see them. And also he is running away in GNP, so I don't mind stopping him doing that Oh, and also I rather cripple an opponent now before I have to face a 3-party-war against me later. I think that's understandable?

Honestly, I think we both know that we will contend for the win, with the Clowns as possible kingmaker - who will choose you most certainly, I'm not really the one to make friends unfortunately. But it probably is too early to think about that.

Kind regards,
Serdoa

YHHYAHGAYGHAYHHBAJUHABGUABAHJUAHBNUA8VATDG A

[Ranamar]

You were saying about gtAngel having a score drop?

That sounds like a pretty clear (although arguably friendly) warning to build your empire now so that you have an industrial base to fight him with later.
Oh, and tech, too, once you get your finances in order... which should probably be your next priority, actually.